I just read through the gout material (relating to diet and purine).

So ... the most significant reason for the inclusion of organ meat is the amino acid taurine, which, BTW, is present in other meats but is affected by the processing in commercial foods (so some now add taurine as a supplement).

You are feeding an unprocessed diet that's rich in taurine. The turquoise chart halfway down this page
http://www.serve.com/BatonRouge/taurine_chmr.htm
shows the huge difference between taurine content in raw versus cooked muscle meats.

Do have have any chance of a consultation (even by phone) with a holistic vet with a nutrition specialty?

Connie, that list will help me find food to feed him to keep him healthy without having to add organ meat right now.

As for the vet, I am going to try and find one. I know there is one somewhere in Indiana, I just can't remember where. I may try calling Purdue and see if they have a listing. They are making strides at training vets about nutrition these days and may have one on staff.

Thanks for the page to read. The one thing I have found out about taurine ( while trying to find a way to feed my kitten raw), is that freezing more than a week can destroy the taurine in the tissue of the food, but haven't found out how much is destroyed. More searching. Good thing I love to research.

Thanks for your reply and wish me luck!

I was happy to find that list, too, because the lists on some sites and in the books I have are from c. 1986.

Evidently, those older lists were pretty inaccurate, mainly because the detection methods are better now.

(The kibble process is evidently just about the worst thing for maintaining taurine levels.)

 Quote: Connie Sutherland

I just read through the gout material (relating to diet and purine).

So ... the most significant reason for the inclusion of organ meat is the amino acid taurine...
You are feeding an unprocessed diet that's rich in taurine. The turquoise chart halfway down this page
http://www.serve.com/BatonRouge/taurine_chmr.htm
shows the huge difference between taurine content in raw versus cooked muscle meats.

With this chart for taurine and another chart I found for purines, I can establish which raw foods I can feed him that shouldn't aggrevate the gout...thank you, Connie!

 Quote: Connie Sutherland

Do have have any chance of a consultation (even by phone) with a holistic vet with a nutrition specialty?

I believe I found a holistic vet an hour or so from my home. Hambone and I will do a drive by Saturday morning and if she is still practicing, (and open), we will visit the clinic and try to get a consultation set up. I am on vacation for 11 days starting next week, so here's hoping Hambone gets in!

Thanks again, everyone. You especially Connie, for taking time to help someone you don't know.

 Quote: Jo Harker

... I believe I found a holistic vet an hour or so from my home. Hambone and I will do a drive by Saturday morning and if she is still practicing, (and open), we will visit the clinic and try to get a consultation set up. I am on vacation for 11 days starting next week, so here's hoping Hambone gets in!

And keeping in mind that even with a nutrition specialty (which this vet may not have), that gout is rare in dogs and that purine and taurine in a raw diet are probably not common issues, I'd probably fax or describe on the phone the challenge you have before the visit and give the vet a chance to look up some stuff.

Yes, Ma'am...reining in. Thanks for the advice.

Just to update...

Based on past history of swelling of feet, stiffness, and the graininess in his webbing, no one is ruling out gout. However, since he experienced this on dry food also, the prevailing wisdom right now is that he is super sensitive to preservatives and also the '5% whatever is in it' solution that most chickens now have. I did find a brand of chicken that is as close to free-range as I can get and has no added solutions. He is doing great! He also eats ground buffalo, beef tongue (in moderation), and ground turkey or hamburger.

I haven't tried him on the organ meats yet. I have a urinalysis to complete on him, and then we "experiment".

I am including two links-- the first picture is from September when he felt really bad: pre-raw and pre-medication. (ignore dates on photos).

http://i499.photobucket.com/albums/rr356/weathermoon/Before%20and%20After/then.jpg

The second is from yesterday.

http://i499.photobucket.com/albums/rr356/weathermoon/Before%20and%20After/1month.jpg


I think I see a small physical improvement after one month. I know I see an big improvement in his attitude, stamina, gait, and just joy of life.

Thanks to all who have reined me in when I needed it and who have answered my questions.

 Quote: Jo Harker

.... I did find a brand of chicken that is as close to free-range as I can get and has no added solutions. He is doing great!

Smart Chicken is also a terrific option (IMO).

And .... GREAT JOB!!

I just started to read this thread and needed to post something immediately. DO NOT feed distilled water. Distilled water is wonderful for use in a chem lab or an iron, but consumption can be potentially toxic over time.

Distilling water essentially is boiling water, catching the vapor and the condensing it back to a liquid. The distilled water has no minerals or contaminants. Therefore DW can ABSORB minerals from the body as well as toxic substances. So when you want to cleanse your body, it can be okay since it will remove toxins. This should only be done for a short time, and NOT while fasting. Drinking DW while fasting can be dangerous because of electrolyte loss.

Daily consumption will remove minerals as well, and will deprive a human and most likely a dog of them over time and lead to health risks.

I recommend filtered water, or bottled. The thing about bottled water is that you should only buy bottled water labeled with "DRINKING WATER". Drinking water is subject to EPA standards (the same standards of water that comes out of your tap must be met with bottled drinking water)
Filtered Spring Water, Artesian Well water, Purified Water etc is sold as a 'soda product' and therefore NOT regulated by the EPA's drinking water standards. Purified DRINKING water is the ONLY good one. The FDA is responsible for soda products and therefore most bottled water tests for fecal coliform, pathogens, bacteria are NOT conducted. <End Rant>


*Phew* I knew my degree would come in handy one way or another

Okay, now that I've read the WHOLE thread *haha* and seen the pics you have a GORGEOUS boy!! I just started to freak out feeding a dog with thyroid problems distilled water.

About the weight: For Kota (9 yr husky/gsd) 50-55lbs has always been a healthy weight for him. Since he's been eating all raw (only about a month now but has eaten partially raw for a few months) he has gained about 5 lbs while still maintaining the same physique. A healthy weight for him on raw is now about 57 lbs and I'll accept anywhere from 55-60.

 Quote:

I think I see a small physical improvement after one month. I know I see an big improvement in his attitude, stamina, gait, and just joy of life.

I'll bet you do!! The way I describe it is Kota is regressing in age. He is shinier, healthier, running more, joints are getting better, happier, more eager to play with the foster dogs. An all around improvement that I wouldn't change for ANYTHING!