Alex Corral wrote 04/16/2009 11:24 AM Re: New at Dog Training [Re: Pat Raynes ] #236361 - 04/16/2009 11:24 AM
Alex Corral Webboard User Reg: 02-23-2007 Posts: 1102 Loc: Denver, CO Offline	Yes, that's true Pat. Every vet has their own opinion. Removing the brain will also decrease the risk of brain cancer.
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Pat Raynes wrote 04/17/2009 06:57 PM Re: New at Dog Training [Re: Alex Corral ] #236545 - 04/17/2009 06:57 PM
Pat Raynes Webboard User Reg: 03-15-2009 Posts: 77 Loc: AL Offline	LOL can I use your quote with my vet? Last night at work I met a guy who "trains dogs" and for a dog trainer well he made a dummy like me feel like I knew more than he did. He says that he "alpha rolls" his dogs.I didn't know what that was and come to find out he muzzles his Pittbulls and gets on top of them like he was fighting them to show he's pack leader and totally disagrees with altering a dog period.Needless to say we got into a lively dispute. I'm not sure if he has a brain maybe a brainstem he'd have to have that to breathe.He did admit that his adult dogs do die at a younger age due to developing cancer but believes that altering a dog takes all the drive out of them even when they are grown.This guy says that he does SCH. training but Alex you do SCH training and I never heard anyone here ever mentioning alpha rolling your dogs. Is this a common thing?
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Will Rambeau wrote 04/17/2009 07:05 PM Re: New at Dog Training [Re: Pat Raynes ] #236546 - 04/17/2009 07:05 PM
Will Rambeau Moderator Reg: 01-25-2003 Posts: 5983 Loc: Idaho Offline	Quote: pat raynes Last night at work I met a guy who "trains dogs" and for a dog trainer well he made a dummy like me feel like I knew more than he did. He says that he "alpha rolls" his dogs.I didn't know what that was and come to find out he muzzles his Pittbulls and gets on top of them like he was fighting them to show he's pack leader and totally disagrees with altering a dog period.Is this a common thing? It's common only with fools, Pat. There's no need to ever have to listen to that "dog trainer" again, they don't know beans and their opinions are out-dated and dangerous. The Fetz dog: http://www.leerburg.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/79673/page/25
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Alex Corral wrote 04/17/2009 07:51 PM Re: New at Dog Training [Re: Will Rambeau ] #236552 - 04/17/2009 07:51 PM
Alex Corral Webboard User Reg: 02-23-2007 Posts: 1102 Loc: Denver, CO Offline	Quote: will rambeau  Quote: pat raynes Last night at work I met a guy who "trains dogs" and for a dog trainer well he made a dummy like me feel like I knew more than he did. He says that he "alpha rolls" his dogs.I didn't know what that was and come to find out he muzzles his Pittbulls and gets on top of them like he was fighting them to show he's pack leader and totally disagrees with altering a dog period.Is this a common thing? It's common only with fools, Pat. There's no need to ever have to listen to that "dog trainer" again, they don't know beans and their opinions are out-dated and dangerous. +1
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Alex Corral wrote 04/17/2009 08:11 PM Re: New at Dog Training [Re: Pat Raynes ] #236555 - 04/17/2009 08:11 PM
Alex Corral Webboard User Reg: 02-23-2007 Posts: 1102 Loc: Denver, CO Offline	Quote: pat raynes LOL can I use your quote with my vet? Last night at work I met a guy who "trains dogs" and for a dog trainer well he made a dummy like me feel like I knew more than he did. He says that he "alpha rolls" his dogs.I didn't know what that was and come to find out he muzzles his Pittbulls and gets on top of them like he was fighting them to show he's pack leader and totally disagrees with altering a dog period.Needless to say we got into a lively dispute. I'm not sure if he has a brain maybe a brainstem he'd have to have that to breathe.He did admit that his adult dogs do die at a younger age due to developing cancer but believes that altering a dog takes all the drive out of them even when they are grown.This guy says that he does SCH. training but Alex you do SCH training and I never heard anyone here ever mentioning alpha rolling your dogs. Is this a common thing? The quote is all yours Pat. This really *irks* me when vets say this as a general rule. I mean, I thought about this alot, and I can see their point about pushing altering so hard on the general public. Altering so young helps keep the unwanted pet population down, and I can respect that. But for you, and me, and everyone who takes the time to sign up on a dog forum to learn, this is not the best advice for our dogs - it's the total opposite. Here's some good info, on why not to alter early Link. The pros of keeping your dog intact greatly outweigh the cons. I do SchH training and also decoy for my club, I have worked some altered dogs that were very high in drive. I think altering is a personal choice and if it's for medical reasons, do it. But not to alter a puppy "just because". Again, I would never alpha roll a dog. I'll leave that to the dogs.
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steve strom wrote 04/17/2009 08:16 PM Re: New at Dog Training [Re: Alex Corral ] #236556 - 04/17/2009 08:16 PM
steve strom Webboard User Reg: 03-17-2006 Posts: 4203 Loc: Offline	For what its worth Pat, I've neutered both Rotts I've owned at 5. Neither one of them changed in any noticable way. Andy is not quite 6 and still has all the drive he's always had.
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Pat Raynes wrote 04/19/2009 10:27 AM Re: New at Dog Training [Re: Alex Corral ] #236665 - 04/19/2009 10:27 AM
Pat Raynes Webboard User Reg: 03-15-2009 Posts: 77 Loc: AL Offline	Thanks so much for the info Alex. I lost my female Rott a few mos back after she was 4 days post op.Ari opened up her incision after I had gone to bed.Something woke me up and there she was with her intestines hanging out.I bond them as best I could and rushed her to the nearest vet but I couldn't save her. Ugo is her full brother from the same litter.I'll never own another female for this reason.I know it was a freak thing to happen and probably would never happen again but once is enough and every female I ever had was spayed and there were no problems.It still bothers and sometimes I still have nightmares about it.
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Pat Raynes wrote 04/19/2009 10:46 AM Re: New at Dog Training [Re: steve strom ] #236666 - 04/19/2009 10:46 AM
Pat Raynes Webboard User Reg: 03-15-2009 Posts: 77 Loc: AL Offline	WOW Andy is beautiful !!! Wish I could train mine to do that and he looks like he loves it. I'm going to wait on getting my guys altered to and just really work on leadership,obedience training and bonding.The more I read about dog agression it seems to me that most dog agression is caused by poor training or no training
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Alex Corral wrote 04/20/2009 12:35 AM Re: New at Dog Training [Re: Pat Raynes ] #236738 - 04/20/2009 12:35 AM
Alex Corral Webboard User Reg: 02-23-2007 Posts: 1102 Loc: Denver, CO Offline	Pat, I am so sorry to hear about Ari. So, you took her to get spayed, and that's why she had the incision? How old was she? I really like Andy also. He is a beautiful dog and I think Steve has done a great job with him. Rotts going over the jump is a very cool thing to see. On the dog aggression, it's really a case by case. I think some dog are just DA, and you see it more in some breeds than others. I don't really see it as a horrible thing, but if the owner knows his dog is DA, and doesn't take the necessary step to protect his dog and others, it can be a very ugly problem. We have some dogs in our club that are somewhat DA. Through training they will tolerate it while working on the field, but don't expect them to be buddies with other dogs. I have seen some awesome dogs that were DA.
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Pat Raynes wrote 04/20/2009 11:17 AM Re: New at Dog Training [Re: Alex Corral ] #236766 - 04/20/2009 11:17 AM
Pat Raynes Webboard User Reg: 03-15-2009 Posts: 77 Loc: AL Offline	Ari was 11 mos.old at the time she was spayed.She had never bothered her incision site before and I checked it twice a day.The only thing we could figure out is since it was almost healed the hair started coming back and itching and she opened it up scratching. I agree with you about the DA.If you know it you can deal with it. I'm going to order Ed's DA Video just to have in case I ever need it but I don't think I will then again there's Murphy's Law that could come into play.Better to be prepared just in case and I want to learn all I can. What I'm curious about is this "alpha rolling" business.I'd like to know how that ever got started in the first place and the reasoning behind it for it just sounds stupid and cruel to me.Seems like that would really make a dog agressive. Is playing tug with a young dog a bad idea if its not going to be SCH trained? I've read so much conflicting information about this that I'm hesitant to play tug with mine.
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