Why not a thirsty drive? If the argument is made long enough and loud enough, people will believe it and another drive can be added to the drive theory.

Hi, I'm new here, but would like to say that this sounds like a generalization issue.
Have you tried putting the prey on a flirt stick and working him in the back yard and then generalizing it slowly to other areas.
You can use his drive to motivate him and then continue with mild distractions and gradually work up to heavy distractions like the class with smells, dogs, handlers etc...
JMHO

Why not a thirsty drive? If the argument is made long enough and loud enough, people will believe it and another drive can be added to the drive theory.

Based upon that assertion, I strongly suspect that you don't understand what drives are, making this line of argument a dead-end.

Is your current dog your first dog?

Canis, how's it going with your dog? Any improvement? If so, what do you think you did differently that helped? If not, what have you tried?

Is the drive theory hard to understand? No, its not. Is it useful to me in training my dog? No. In fact, she is better for not having been made food, ball or prey crazy.

Hi Catherine, Actually drives are important.
I understand that you don't want your dog to work with prey (ball) drive for whatever reason. But what you are not realising is that drives are what motivate the dog at a basic level. So although you are not working on Prey drive, you are working with pack drive, and the desire to please you.
So I would say yes, drives are very important in training. No matter what the trainer thinks. The trainer that can use the dog's inate drives (instincts for lack of a better word) can train by motivating the dog at the most natural level. So I'm afraid that I have to disagree with you about drives not being important. You are actually working your dog in Pack drive.

I'm no expert on "drives", but everytime I read one of Catherine's posts the first thing that comes to my mind is "HUH?" 50 something posts in and now I'm reacting. Forgive me for the extremely slow trigger finger.LOL

Catherine,
Again, is this your first dog? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

You know, questioning conventional wisdom is not neccessarily a bad thing. Take Pythagorus for example. He insisted that the Earth was round, when the conventional wisdom said otherwise, and he invented the Pythagorean Theory. But then again, he was also a nut. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Is drive important when training a dog? You bet (Notice I don't call it "the drive theory", because it is, in fact, true that all animals posess drives.)!

I'm not going to continue with this line of discussion, because you have already gotten so much good, valid information from knowledgable, experienced trainers, yet continue to refuse to budge in your point of view. I could discuss this with you until I'm blue in the face <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> , but until you've been training dogs successfully for a number of years, and can demonstrate your dog training prowess to all of us idiots, then I just don't think there is any reason at all to even try.

Nothing personal, I just don't need the aggravation. Enjoy your dog, and best wishes with your training. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Jeesh, I never knew that my question would spawn such a philosophical debate!
My 2cents on the drive theory:
In human psycology there is the seven types of
intelligence theory. Why then not have different types of "intelligence" criteria for
dogs? Thats what this whole drive thing boils down to. Just as our different "intelligence"
areas have a direct effect on our survival, social behaviour, choice of career and our achievements in life so too has the dogs different drives have in his/her life.
Be it in the primal "wolf" mode as designed by
God aka mothernature or in a domestic human environment our furry friends also have their own set of "talents" to survive.
The GSD especially, being such a versatile animal has been used for countless working duties since Max developed the breed.
Now couldnt it be that one should look at the
individual dog and see where its aptitude lies
and develop and nutrure that particular drive
so its potential can be met. One dog might have low fight drive but will excell in tracking ect.. ect...
Just a few thoughts.

Regarding my original question:
Thanks for all the extremely helpfull people
who responded to my question. My dog is doing
great now and he has that same look in his face when I take out the article as when I take out a dog biscuit. The interest of an unfamiliar environemt still outweighs his interest in working though but Im working on it.
thanks again

Pack drive? No, my dog does not see me as part of her pack. I'm not a dog.

Can you honestly say that for all this understanding of what motivates dogs, how to build drives, etc. that it makes for better working dogs today or dogs in general?

Catherine... I really hope you never have the experience of having to go eye-to-eye with a dominant male dog. He doesn't think you're part of his pack? Then why is he so intent on being #1?

Please put on the brakes and listen to what some of the people here are trying to tell you. They have trained one hell of a lot of dogs between them.

Pete Felknor