Quote: shaniqua bradley

the lab pit mix is way too old. thanks for the advice but as previously stated she is oldddd

You can teach an old dog new tricks.

I've become more interested in training as my dog has entered his senior years and like you think the thought of working with a puppy would be awesome but what about Thor? Just because he's older (11) and isn't as flashy as he once was or as thrilled about everytime I say "Want to work?" ; doesn't mean I can't work him or that it won't be as much of a learning experience as it would be with a puppy.

We recently started an agility class and he is completely awesome and engaged. Do I need to accommodate for his age? YES! But the accommodations don't effect the training they are more about his health and safety.

Shaniqua,

If you are driving cross country, an older dog can handle that as well as a young dog; maybe better (more patience). So is the problem, that she is difficult to motivate to work and kind of happy lazing around and physically slowed down? If that is the case; you have a gem! Because IMO engaging the dog is the most important part of training and with an older dog who hasn't been worked much recently you may have your work cut out for you and that will be one heck of a lesson learned.

The puppy's the easy way out; you want to be a trainer go with the Senior you'll put more work in.

 Quote: http://michaelellisschool.com/courses.htm

PUPPY DEVELOPMENT
TECHNIQUES FOR MAKING THE MOST OF YOUR PUPPY FOR WORK OR PET

This course is an in depth primer on rearing a puppy for success in any discipline. It covers early critical socialization, “learning to learn,” shaping behavior, controlling environment to keep problems from emerging, proper play techniques (to maximize motivation), house breaking, and teaching manners without destroying a dogs motivation to work. This course is designed for a variety of trainers, from active pet dog trainers to competitive obedience, agility, or protection sport trainers. Learn to lay a solid foundation… it will pay off in the long run. Students must bring a puppy for the practical portion.

The above class starts in early January...

Don't know if this is the class she is going to, or one of them, BUT...Just as an FYI...

It is not uncommon for working kennels, of both breeds, to hold back some pups to sell as young prospects. Also they will sometimes have pups returned for various reasons that could be a perfect fit for a competition OB dog.

My advice would be to research the bloodlines a bit (you have some time) and the breeders that use them. Contact those breeders and see if they have any older pups. Many will be happy to have a pup sold to an owner that is so committed to training that they are going to the ME school. They want their pups doing something...

Do be prepared to pay between $800 - $1500 for a good prospect. An older pup is less of a risk than a baby puppy as one can see exactly how they have developed and if they will be a good working dog.

BUT there going to a breed rescue and taking a look at the young surrenders is not a bad idea at all. Often they are surrendered for the very characteristics that will make them a great OB prospect...

 Quote: Connie Sutherland

eta

Maybe ME would be a good person to discuss it with ....

I think Connie hit the nail on the head, as usual!!!

You know, the whole thing actually doesn't surprise me. Especially in the horse competing world it's something you see quite a lot. If somebody wants to compete and their horse is to old or not good enough and they got the money they simply get a new one. Once that horse reached its limits and the rider can't get any further they will start looking for yet another horse and probably sell the old one.

The same thing happens in the SchH world. If you want to be somebody you can't always hold on to the "old material". There are the once that stay and retire with you and there are the once that are being sold.

Being a professional means that you can't always keep every single dog and you buy the new once for a reason and not only because you want to have a pet.

There is a big difference, IMO, between "my competition dog is starting to look old, will be looking for a new pup for <very specific purpose>" and "need 2 pups right now, nothing too expensive, drives/pedigree don't matter, any breed".

Also the hehs and hahs, the lack of any specific details other than $ amounts and the sig make the whole thing look very odd. Especially compared to the very common "looking for a new puppy" posts.

Or maybe it's just me

I did PM the OP a couple of days ago regarding my experience with ME's school this April/May. I was there for a 2-week OB course with my GSD.

I encouraged the OP to email Michael and discuss her situation with him. When I was there for my course, each student was instructed to bring a dog. We all did, but a few of the dogs could not work during class due to stress.

Michael had several young dogs/puppies he was training at the time, when a student's dog could not work, Michael would let the student work with one of his dogs/puppies instead. One student pretty much worked with Michael's dogs only during the whole two weeks. Another student worked with Michael's dogs only during the first week, until his dog warmed up to the new environment in the second week.

I am sure it is best to bring your own dog, but in the OP's situation, I would just ask Michael and see what his opinion is. I emailed Michael several times before my course and he was always very responsive.

Oh, and I agree with everyone else, I personally don't think it is a good idea to get two pups just for a course. I would go to a course for the two pups, but not the other way around.

Edited by Melissa Hau (10/28/2010 03:15 PM)
Edit reason: forgot the last part

 Quote: ana kozlowsky

There is a big difference, IMO, between "my competition dog is starting to look old, will be looking for a new pup for <very specific purpose>" and "need 2 pups right now, nothing too expensive, drives/pedigree don't matter, any breed".

Also the hehs and hahs, the lack of any specific details other than $ amounts and the sig make the whole thing look very odd. Especially compared to the very common "looking for a new puppy" posts.

Or maybe it's just me

Actually, there is a specific purpose. She wants to become a trainer. She's been working with a kennel, realized that this is what she wants to do but her pit/lab mix is too old so she needs a younger dog to pursue her dream.

Also, it's not just any breed. It's either a GSD or a Malinois.


Haven't we all done the same thing somehow? I've been looking for a puppy a year ago because I know that my male will never be able to compete in Schutzhund ever again. She's got plans, don't we all have plans?

She's got a budget, don't we all have a budget? I wouldn't buy an overprized puppy either. Yeah, she maybe worded it wrong but honestly, we all know what we can spend on a pup and what we can't spend and 800 to a 1000 bucks is a reasonable prize. I've paid 850 Euros for my pup. I knew that I couldn't pay more than a thousand Euros so I've been actually ruling those out that were more expensive than that.

What's wrong with that?

However, I knew what I wanted. I knew exactly what I was looking for in drive & line and I found it.

However, I am hoping that she will do her research and not buy the first puppy that crosses her way.

This might be a long shot but maybe you could team up with a breeder that has a prospect pup and "borrow" it for the course. It would be good socialization and experience for the pup and it would be free training as far as the breeder is concerned. Borrow two, purchase one at the end of the course- maybe for a good deal since you got some free training for the breeder. You can video the pup working that you could take back to the breeder for review. Or even get into a "co-ownership" situation with a breeder. In return for the dog, you will train, compete, etc with the dog. Titles for the breeder and experience under your belt!

I know its a shot in the dark and would take a lot of conversations, maybe a contract, etc.. but if you want to be a dog trainer then it wouldnt hurt to start forming partnerships with breeders. Chances are down the road your clients will want your recommendations on good breeders. And maybe the breeders will want to work your awesome dogs into their breeding programs.

 Quote: jessica pedicord

This might be a long shot but maybe you could team up with a breeder that has a prospect pup and "borrow" it for the course. It would be good socialization and experience for the pup and it would be free training as far as the breeder is concerned. Borrow two, purchase one at the end of the course- maybe for a good deal since you got some free training for the breeder. You can video the pup working that you could take back to the breeder for review. Or even get into a "co-ownership" situation with a breeder. In return for the dog, you will train, compete, etc with the dog. Titles for the breeder and experience under your belt!

I know its a shot in the dark and would take a lot of conversations, maybe a contract, etc.. but if you want to be a dog trainer then it wouldnt hurt to start forming partnerships with breeders. Chances are down the road your clients will want your recommendations on good breeders. And maybe the breeders will want to work your awesome dogs into their breeding programs.

uh, no

Just trying to brainstorm....