Quote: Jeffrey Hill

Later, it would be interesting to see if I could gain the skill to train her to follow a blood trail. It would be nice during bow season.

No skill needed on your part. She already knows how to smell.:wink:

Put her on a stupidly easy track and let her see the awesomeness that is at the end. Be it food, or just a chew on a deer tail. Whatever motivates her to find the end. Then gradually raise the difficulty.

The only skill YOU need is how to read blood and track signs.:smile: For her, if she has the desire to hunt, she will.:smile:

Sorry for the derail. You hit my soft spot. Back to e-collars.:smile:

 Quote: Jeffrey Hill

I would never give this dog up

For now all I am wanting/expecting to achieve is good solid obediencce, and maybe in another years time pretty good off leash control.

Later, it would be interesting to see if I could gain the skill to train her to follow a blood trail. It would be nice during bow season.

My very frank two cents - that is not enough for this dog. She needs a job. She does not need to go out in the yard to run off steam by herself. She needs you out there playing with her and using that playtime to train her.

So far it sounds like your goals are to control her. Not gonna work. You don't get a high energy working breed then simply expect a dog that walks nicely on leash. You need to give her an outlet for her drive if you want her to be a well adjusted dog. It can't be blood tracking sometime in the future.

You need to come up with a game plan that includes what she needs, not just what you need.


ETA: Just to clarify - blood tracking can be a great job for her. But she needs something to do now, not just down the road sometime. So if it is something you'd like to pursue with her you should start sooner rather than later. I'm kind of guessing that if this dog had some clear boundaries and a job to do it would go along way in getting her to settle down.

Edited by Mara Jessup (02/10/2011 07:38 PM)
Edit reason: clarify

 Quote: Barbara Schuler

While you are expecting solid obedience from her, I hope you are giving equal if not more consideration to what SHE needs in order to be able to bond with you and be willing to obey.

 Quote: Mara Jessup

You don't get a high energy working breed then simply expect a dog that walks nicely on leash. You need to give her an outlet for her drive if you want her to be a well adjusted dog. It can't be blood tracking sometime in the future.

You need to come up with a game plan that includes what she needs, not just what you need.

Bingo.

And yes, great plan to watch the interaction on the Ellis videos. I think it will be very illuminating.

She is only in the yard for the 4 hours I am not at the home other than that...its pretty much just play time right now. It has been a long time since she hasn't been totally wiped out by 930 she is already in her crate sound asleep, don't even notice when I shut the door.

as far as jobs, what "job" would you think to be suitable for her to be working towards at this moment, as we work on foundational stuff.

Correct me if I am wrong, but I think what people are wondering is what are you doing for exercise for her right now? Especially since you said you can't take her for walks. How are you tiring her out physically. The marker training and blood trailing if you pursue that is great to help tire her out mentally, not so much physically. This sounds like a dog who should be getting a couple nice long walks daily.

we literally play fetch all day or until she refuses to bring her little rubber ring back to me.

All I really know to do at the moment without the walks is this. Even if I am busy I can just sitdown at the kitchen table and work, and toss her ring to the back of our yard through the doors as long as its not freezing outside

It seems to be doing the trick very well.

I would not leave a dog like this alone out in a yard. The picture I am getting is of a dog that has high needs for energy outlets of a purposeful nature. It sounds to me like she has been coping with a lack of structure and that is showing up in her inappropriate jumping and chasing. She needs structure that not only shows her how to behave appropriately in a variety of settings, but also structure that gives her outlets for her particular drives and talents.

If she likes jumping and catching things in her mouth, make a game of it that includes teaching her to Give the thing she is catching back to you, and to Stop playing the game on command. That way, you can wear her out with jumping to catch things, teach her to relinquish desired objects, and teach her self-control. Now, instead of jumping on people, she is jumping after toys, flirts, etc. and getting rewarded for it. And she is learning to turn the jumping behaviour off and on at your command.

I don't understand the emotionless part. If you are happy with your dog, she is going to respond to that. When she does something right, give her a happy tone, a happy dance, let her know, on an emotional level, that you are pleased with her accomplishment.

If she is doing an unwanted behaviour, she doesn't need to be punished, she needs to be re-directed. For example, your GF walks into the room and you see Heidi's ears prick up and she starts to move toward her. You immediately step on her drag line so she can't go forward. She starts to turn her head back to see what is holding her up. You click that head turn and she looks back at you, you hold out her treat. She decides the treat is more interesting than trying for your GF and comes trotting back. You get her to sit, give her the treat, and give her a TON of praise for making a new choice.

Then, you put her back in her Place (where she is supposed to be waiting quietly until someone asks her to do something). She knows her Place because you have clicked and treated her through a process that ends up with her knowing, "This is where I am supposed to be until someone calls on me."

Granted, I am new at this, but I think you would have a calmer dog if she stayed in her crate while you are out of the house, rather than left loose in a yard.

This is all predicated on the idea that she is getting enough exercise to drain her energy in a healthy way (not because she is stressed). For example, a structured walk for 30 minutes with the majority of the time practicing Heel is going to wear her out in a good way, much better than hours unattended outside.

Fetch all day is not good for a growing dog. It will very possibly lead to joint issues later on in life.

What this dog needs is structure, boundaries and mental work. How is she using the brain she has? How can she use her combination of physical energy, mental energy and drives?

I'd put her on a schedule. Crate time, training time, structured play time. Start doing simple foot step tracking. Have her track for her meals, have her track to find a toy to play with. If you play fetch (in limited amounts) practice obedience with it. Have her down before you throw something. Teach her to heal for her tug. It's going to go a lot further to helping her to settle than just plain fetch.

 Quote: Jeffrey Hill

Even if I am busy I can just sitdown at the kitchen table and work, and toss her ring to the back of our yard through the doors as long as its not freezing outside

Jeff, the amount of attention/training you put into this dog correlates exactly to the amount of behavior/obedience you get in return.

I do believe you mean well - I honestly do. My recommendation would be to immerse yourself in the Michael Ellis free-streaming videos and begin to absorb what all goes into training the type of dog we all envision owning. You've come to the right place.

ETA - and what Mara said.

Is walking with her not an option because she is dog reactive? Could you try driving somewhere remote and walking her there? I would use the dd collar ONLY as a back up incase you did run into something she reacts to so she can't back out of her regular collar. Or maybe a harness? The other members would know better than I. But maybe a remote area or a very early morning walk or late evning walk where people don't really go out as much might work?

Not sure where you live, but If you do drive somewhere more remote maybe you'll find a good tracking or hiking spot