Very well said.

I think in the OP's case the management and engagement was more important than performing a particular OB exercise.

But then all of us SchH people want to look tough. It won't do for a puppy to disobey and misbehave Doesn't look good on the field.

 Quote: Bob Scott

... I have people tell me that reward based training doesn't work because you can't go on a trial field/ring with food or a tug in you pocket. That's correct but you also can't go on a trial field/ring with a pinch or e-collar on the dog.
The training has to convince the dog that either reward or correction is always an option.

I need to tattoo this somewhere so I am ready next time that comes up.

Agreed Connie.

Well said, Bob!

i think the problem is i haven;t weaned her off treats. another problem is i am a old dog trainer not a typist it loses something in the translation.

 Quote: john axe

i think the problem is i haven;t weaned her off treats. another problem is i am a old dog trainer not a typist it loses something in the translation.

How old are you John?
I'll be 66 in just a couple of weeks. Started training dogs when I was twelve and started with markers just 7+ yrs ago.
Old dogs are never to old!

56, real bad back to much helper work be trainings since i was 20 first 10 years all wrong started in k9 at 25 i love the sport dogs want to try mondio appears more difficult than sch i see your from st louis if you passed sch in either the usa or dvg club in that area you did a great job,

 Quote: john axe

one of the big factors is what anne stated ..they go through the behaviors they are taught she is correct.. years ago i asked the Chicago PD head trainer (50+ dog unit..wow ) why his dog didn't auto sit when he stopped. he didn't want him to think on his own that's when you as a handler get in trouble.

I didn't know that we were talking about police service dogs & training for their specific goals. No one here is talking about the way that they are trained & why, as it will be quite unlikely that they will have to handle a PSD or train one. I was speaking generally, as sport dog & pet owners, as I am sure were most others.

Managing the dog & their behavior is key. I don't have dogs that run around offering behaviors hoping to get treats or only obey me ONLY if I have a reward of some kind in my hand or pocket to give them. Nor do they go around jumping on everyone.

John you have most of this all wrong. Yes, as you said you should stick to your old ways...,they are better suited to you, it seems. Some old dogs don't learn new tricks very well, it seens.

 Quote: john axe

i think the problem is i haven;t weaned her off treats. another problem is i am a old dog trainer not a typist it loses something in the translation.

Someone here that is a lot better versed in marker training then I am can help. I know the goal is for an unpredictable reward schedule.

Hang in there on the typing, it will get better. I think some of the problem is that you are not comfortable typing and you keep your posts very short and a lot gets lost that way on both sides of the equation.

 Quote: john axe

56, real bad back to much helper work be trainings since i was 20 first 10 years all wrong started in k9 at 25 i love the sport dogs want to try mondio appears more difficult than sch i see your from st louis if you passed sch in either the usa or dvg club in that area you did a great job,

Hey John, did you train your dogs to all their titles? Puppy-BH through 3 and then national competition?

 Quote: Anne Jones

Yes, as you said you should stick to your old ways...,they are better suited to you,

It’s funny, when I first read John’s post; I too thought it was great he had decided on a training plan. Not the one I would choose, but one that suited him and the developing communication style he felt was best for him and his pup. A language he’s familiar with.

But I also couldn’t help but think of the first remote we got for our TV. This thing had so many buttons and was so confusing just trying to turn the volume up and down. If the channel needed changing, I’d just get up and do it before I missed the whole show. (Hubby had no problem figuring it out by the way).

I stuck with it though and eventually got the stupid thing figured out. It was actually quite liberating. Not only learning the new technology but things just happened a lot quicker with half the effort.

Of course now they’re coming out with new remotes everyday for each different gadget but knowing the new technological basics pretty much allows me to fine tune and adjust my thought process to the added challenges.

Would I want to go back to getting up and changing the channels? Probably not but if the batteries died, I’d know what to do. As long as they’re working though, I’m keeping an open mind and moving forward with the future.

Whatever you decide John, I'm sure you'll have your little girl's most beneficial development plan at heart.