he didn't need stitches so we don't consider it a real bite

Lol. That's nothing. I get that just playing with my dog.

(we might need some targeting/presentation refinement)

it was a dutch shepherd that bit him (lol)
I think part of the suit saved him he had trouble opening his hand for a couple of days his palm was opened up

Just an observation - for the same reason you don't wear a ring while rock climbing, you shouldn't wear one while playing decoy imo. A dogs tooth gets caught on that, then you got a real problem, most especially when they're in drive. JMO!

I think fearful dogs are born and fear biters are created out of those fearful dogs.

My dog Kari (which I thought was a foster but ended up with me) is a dog who cannot handle pressure. I mean he will completely shut down even if I give a gentle flat collar leash pop.He will lie down and pee on himself. He has bitten my gardener because he tried to grab Kari by his rear legs.

I know for a fact that if I push Kari beyond a point he will bite. So biting is some thing that they learn. I agree that fearful dogs have a very high chance of learning to bite.

This is why I train Kari with zero compulsion and this is also why Kari knows almost zero when it comes to real world obedience( he can do parlour tricks). I love him but I must admit that there is a certain degree of condescension in my relationship with him. (Oh , poor Kari, let me not push him too hard)

On the other hand Kaiser is also fearful of me and so are my other two , but they know how to turn off that fear. By compliance (Not lunge at the passing dog, Not challenging me, Not being aggressive to children in my family). Three of my dogs are fearful, but know how to turn off the threat.

Kari's brain on the other hand totally paralyzes him when I bring to bear even the mildest of pressure. If I apply further pressure after he is lying down and peeing on himself, it will trigger a "fight for his life" response. So, I do think fearful dogs (according to my definition) are born.

Now to handler aggression. It depends on the definition of handler. If a good healthy dominant-submissive relationship between a dog and it's master does not exist, then I would assume that any dog worth it's salt would bite.

What I say may be controversial, but I like dogs that bite when people whom they dont know try to force them to do some thing. Both Kaiser and Bommi will bite if some one decided to "handle" them out of the blue. Helga on the other hand will have no problems.

I would want a dog that will not cooperate with a handler if it did not respect him/her.

 Quote: john axe

he didn't need stitches so we don't consider it a real bite

LOL… I totally agree. If only we could get society to view it that way.

Have been working with Vince on a food reward systems. He just does not want food while we’re training. This may sound silly but I'm actually having to train this. He takes a treat and gets a ball toss for doing it. I had him pretty hungry last week because I'm phasing out the tosses and introducing commands. And while I don’t mix raw and kibble, he was getting some blood drippings with his Orijen treats.

So with these decoys, from what I’m hearing, accidental bites, maybe even misses, happen but not enough that hand protection is warranted. The dogs would never lock on a hand with one of those full mouth, head shaking grips.

Thanks guys, appreciated.

 Quote: Ramachandran Subramanian

He has bitten my gardener because he tried to grab Kari by his rear legs.

er.....I think I would have bitten your gardener too....what on earth was he doing?

Moved from "Fearbiters: Born or made?"

to

http://leerburg.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=346068&page=0#Post346068


Edited by Connie Sutherland (10/04/2011 10:52 AM)
Edit reason: moved post

CJ the reason it's usually not as bad is because the handler is yelling the release command.

Ben, wearing a ring in bite work isn't a problem, because the idea is not to stick you hand in the dogs month that's what the bite suit is for lol

That makes total sense John. The dogs being under the control of their handlers who should be able to put a stop to something like pretty quickly.

Interestingly enough, I understand that even some Sch 3 dogs might not "out", with 3 commands. Let's just hope they're not latched onto a hand when they decide to blow off that command.