Connie Sutherland wrote 03/04/2014 06:23 PM Re: Raw feeding questions [Re: Aric Buss ] #389387 - 03/04/2014 06:23 PM
Connie Sutherland Moderator Reg: 07-13-2005 Posts: 31571 Loc: North-Central coast of California Offline	Just to re-affirm what Tracy is saying, you won't be incorporating organ meats yet. When you do (after you see a couple of days of good log poops on the RMBs and MM), it will be 5% to 10% of the total diet ... and starting at 2% is a good idea. So the organ meat part is simple, and it's gradual ... eventually ending up with 5% (or up to 10%) of the total diet. The RMB to MM (muscle meat) ratio is explained here: http://leerburg.com/webboard/thread.php?topic_id=32656&page=1#366438 That thread is saying exactly what Tracy is saying. We all fully get that some folks will "see" it one way better than another. If you read this post http://leerburg.com/webboard/thread.php?topic_id=32656&page=1#366439 and Tracy's post above, you'll get the big picture. Don't worry about organ meat quite yet. It's going to be a function of the weight of the rest of the meal, AND it's not something that's included in meal #1 or #2 or #3 anyway.
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Connie Sutherland wrote 03/04/2014 06:17 PM Re: Raw feeding questions [Re: Tracy Collins ] #389388 - 03/04/2014 06:17 PM
Connie Sutherland Moderator Reg: 07-13-2005 Posts: 31571 Loc: North-Central coast of California Offline	Quote: Tracy Collins You won't be starting with organs right away. So just do half RMB and half MM. Half pound (8 ounces) of each per day, divided by your number of meals. When you do start adding in organs, it will never be more than 10% of the diet (in your case 1.6 ounces a day, which is 10% of a pound.) So then the food bowl will be 45% RMB, 45% MM, 10% OM. As I've posted in other threads, this doesn't require the precision of making rocket fuel, or even cake batter. These percentages are ballparks. You may need to adjust the "approximately" half-half ratio of RMB and MM based on the animal parts you buy. Some RMBs are bonier than others. Just watch the dogs poop and adjust as necessary. Start with the easy part. Find some chicken backs and some boneless chicken meat. That's all you'll feed for the first several days. Weigh out 8 ounces of chicken back. Then 8 ounces of boneless chicken meat. Eyeball that. That's what your dog will eat for the day. Now divide that into meals. Ditto on how to start! (And to ensure even more carefully against any diarrhea, why not peel off the fatty skin from the backs until you see the first poops.)
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Aric Buss wrote 03/04/2014 07:00 PM Re: Raw feeding questions [Re: Aric Buss ] #389392 - 03/04/2014 07:00 PM
Aric Buss Webboard User Reg: 10-14-2013 Posts: 219 Loc: Canada, Alberta Offline	Alright thats much easier to understand thank you for the break down. . "If it helps any, a pretty-close-to-ideal ratio of bone, meat, organs, and veg can be visualized as a "whole prey" diet. That is, if your dog were to eat an entire prey animal as caught--a whole rabbit--including all the meat, bones, hide, and stomach contents--that would be the proper ratios of those foods." That makes sense, this is starting to seem much easier, perhaps I was just over thinking everything. I might switch to feeding twice a day. So just to reiterate I will be feeding 50%raw meaty bones, 50% muscle meat at first. Then after a few days introduce organs, and organs are to be no more than 10% of the daily food or weight of food after they are introduced.
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Tracy Collins wrote 03/04/2014 09:21 PM Re: Raw feeding questions [Re: Aric Buss ] #389395 - 03/04/2014 09:21 PM
Tracy Collins Webboard User Reg: 10-09-2008 Posts: 1917 Loc: St. Louis, Missouri Offline	It's not critical that you get to organs as a second ingredient, IMO. As mentioned in several threads, the first "new" thing to add (after several days) would be a small amount of the chicken skin that you are going to remove from the first several meals. Add this fatty skin back in gradually. Second, I would then introduce a "red meat"--pork or beef as an alternative to the boneless chicken. Then, add liver--and I cannot emphasize enough that the first organ meat meals must be a tiny sliver. This kind of slow, cautious adding of new ingredients--from the blandest skinless chicken to richer meals-- will almost guarantee that you won't cause diarrhea. Because if that happens, you'll have to stop the raw feeding, feed a rice diet for days, and then start all over. So don't push it. Cinco | Jack | Fanny | Ellie | Chip | Deacon
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Tracy Collins wrote 03/05/2014 12:02 PM Re: Raw feeding questions [Re: Aric Buss ] #389406 - 03/05/2014 12:02 PM
Tracy Collins Webboard User Reg: 10-09-2008 Posts: 1917 Loc: St. Louis, Missouri Offline	http://s2.photobucket.com/user/luca-stl/library/Raw%20Feeding the link above is to a few pages I just created that may be helpful to you and others new to raw feeding. Sometimes a book can be a lot to get through when all somebody wants is a "cheat sheet." It seems I'm forever explaining the same ideas to new raw feeders (which is something I enjoy and welcome). So I thought having a link to some of this might be useful. The only caveat I want to offer is that I'm not any kind of a professional. The information I'm sharing is simply my own experience learned by feeding dogs a homemade raw diet for the last 8-9 years, shopping for the ingredients and learning from people who know even more than me (like Connie.) Cinco | Jack | Fanny | Ellie | Chip | Deacon
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Connie Sutherland wrote 03/05/2014 02:41 PM Re: Raw feeding questions [Re: Tracy Collins ] #389415 - 03/05/2014 02:41 PM
Connie Sutherland Moderator Reg: 07-13-2005 Posts: 31571 Loc: North-Central coast of California Offline	Quote: Tracy Collins http://s2.photobucket.com/user/luca-stl/library/Raw%20Feeding the link above is to a few pages I just created that may be helpful to you and others new to raw feeding. Sometimes a book can be a lot to get through when all somebody wants is a "cheat sheet." It seems I'm forever explaining the same ideas to new raw feeders (which is something I enjoy and welcome). So I thought having a link to some of this might be useful. The only caveat I want to offer is that I'm not any kind of a professional. The information I'm sharing is simply my own experience learned by feeding dogs a homemade raw diet for the last 8-9 years, shopping for the ingredients and learning from people who know even more than me (like Connie.) That's really nice! I even figured out how to view the pics as a slideshow! Very nice.
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Connie Sutherland wrote 03/05/2014 04:01 PM Re: Raw feeding questions [Re: Aric Buss ] #389418 - 03/05/2014 04:01 PM
Connie Sutherland Moderator Reg: 07-13-2005 Posts: 31571 Loc: North-Central coast of California Offline	And I like the new addition of how much to feed. I see they get bigger when you click on the picture, then even bigger if you click on the small square at the bottom right. (This was new to me!)
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Tracy Collins wrote 03/05/2014 05:01 PM Re: Raw feeding questions [Re: Aric Buss ] #389420 - 03/05/2014 05:01 PM
Tracy Collins Webboard User Reg: 10-09-2008 Posts: 1917 Loc: St. Louis, Missouri Offline	I've just re-sized the images so that when you enlarge, they are optimized for viewing on screen. (they were too big before.) Click on the little square/magnifier in the bottom right corner of each image. Photobucket's not the best platform for this--but it works, and it's free. there are 8 images in this folder--a chart offering guidelines on meal sizes based on a dog's weight, a chart showing the ratio of RMB to MM and other foods, and several pages showing examples of typical meal ingredients. This is all aimed at brand-new raw feeders. If you're already feeding raw, you already know all this. http://s2.photobucket.com/user/luca-stl/library/Raw%20Feeding Cinco | Jack | Fanny | Ellie | Chip | Deacon
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Aric Buss wrote 03/05/2014 05:28 PM Re: Raw feeding questions [Re: Aric Buss ] #389421 - 03/05/2014 05:28 PM
Aric Buss Webboard User Reg: 10-14-2013 Posts: 219 Loc: Canada, Alberta Offline	Thats all very helpful, I thank you both for all of the time you have put in to help me out on getting started. I will be going to the butchers tomorrow.
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Lee_Reicheld wrote 03/07/2014 08:58 AM Re: Raw feeding questions [Re: Aric Buss ] #389445 - 03/07/2014 08:58 AM
Lee_Reicheld Webboard User Reg: 01-21-2009 Posts: 430 Loc: Michigan Offline	Thanks for taking the time to put that together Tracy, that is really cool! I am going to share it with some friends who ask me quite often about other things they can add into the raw diet rotation. That makes it very clear and simple. I think one of the barriers that keeps many people from feeding raw is the fear of the unknown. Your guide with photos really helps eliminate that unknown factor!
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