Not really on topic, but you guys forgot the HGH title. It is a SchH I or an HGH. Unless that has changed . . . <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

I'm gonna repost this one, because I think it is a cool subject. And I like to see my name on the board. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

I've got two reasons that the darker pigments are vastly more common in the working lines. One, dark dogs are easier to see in a herd of sheep. And two, dark dogs are less easy to see when running at you to bite your nutz.

Also working people have less interest in the looks of the dog so there was never a label put on the "other" colors by us folks. Wolfy, ugly, dirty looking, etc..

Anybody else have some ideas?

I think they look better to me, they definitely have a more intimidating appearance.

I like many that are all black. That would really keep the show people out of your stock. If it could be done easily and not take a real long time. Have some breeders here tried to do this? So then no one had to worry with colors.

I'm not an expert on dogs or breeding. SO it's just a question. If Lilley Dave needs to clarify this for me then perhaps he can give me some special ed. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />
OK, This is my quest. Talk the wife into letting me find a new pup with only working lines that has the look I want. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I may be asking for help.

Jerry the site you memtioned looks like something I like in my dogs.
<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Now to spend some time with my mix bred.(BLK/Tan)
WORKING/show DOG. Noticed the lettering!

Although I don't have any data on the subject, it SEEMS that most pure working line dogs are sable.... or at least that sable is more common among working lines.

I've been told that the sable color tends to be genetically dominant over black and tan so that if either parent is sable, the pups will be also.

Brad, I'm sorry for hurting your feelings.

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> I forgive you. That's what I like about you Lilley Dave, your not only just a gentleman but your also a scholar.

Has anyone else heard that the sable color is dominant over black and tan?

 Quote:

Originally posted by VanCamp:
I like to see my name on the board. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> I've got two reasons that the darker pigments are vastly more common in the working lines. One, dark dogs are easier to see in a herd of sheep.

Happy to oblige keeping your visible name on the list :rolleyes: -- whatever floats your boat <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I probably shouldn't jump in here because I have only skimmed the thread & I'm sleep deprived from lambing but the "sheep herding" caught my eye <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> (the open one <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> ).

The shepherds I know prefer the sable herding dogs -- they seem to think they are better working dogs.

Dave Lilley says:

 Quote:

Although I don't have any data on the subject, it SEEMS that most pure working line dogs are sable.... or at least that sable is more common among working lines.

Sable may be more common in working dogs because sable is dominant over most (or all) other color patterns in the GSD -- ref. "Inheritance of Coat Color In Dogs" by Little. This being the case, where color is not specifically selected for (as in the case of real working dogs where ability is selected for over appearance), one would assume that the domminant color would be more prevelant -- just a guess.

Red is a recessive color -- recessive to most other colors as is black. So when show people made red popular it had to be very selectively bred for -- and because it is a recessive color there was a lot of close breeding necessary to get and keep it prepotent in ones lines. This probably added to the genetic deterioration in the show lines -- JMO.

Gotta run -- sorry again for butting in -- no pun intended <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

While we are talking about Working and Show line GSD check this link out.

http://www.workingdogs.com/lshaw1.htm

The author of this article is a leading expert on structure of the GSD and dogs in general. Her animal art which includes not only sketch and paintings but also some of the best detailed Bronze in the world and is sought after by collectors worldwide.

The dog that is depicted in the Painting at the top of the page is a american show champion who could hold his own in the ring of Conformation. I trained this dog in basic protection and he did just fine. He was never going to become a top protection dog in sport but he did have good nerve, good thinking and he could bite and hold on and do all the stuff you would expect a decent protection dog to do.

His name was Corry (now deceased) and when bred to a DDR bred bitch produced a litter of pups that did include two very good working dogs. One a typical DDR type and attitude and a Show style GSD named Timmy who in my estimation is one of the better GSD out in the system today.

Recently a German SV Judge commented that Timmy was of excellent quality for work and several times during the evaluation at a well attended seminar refered back to Timmy. ( <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> PS, I trained Timmy in his Bitework <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> ) Timmy was rated as the dog with the best bite in the seminar.

I will speak to Linda Shaw today and get the skinny on coat color and the position it takes in the gene pool.

Jerry Cudahy