The SV stills calls it Schutzhund, but the DVG has gone to VPG (but they're "schutzhund lite" anyway! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> ). But everyone's been calling the bites "grips" for years now. If we want to keep other people out of our business and not scare people, we'd be wise to keep speaking of it in "friendlier" terms like that. We know what we really mean.
Originally posted by Kevin Sheldahl: "While what you say can happen (a guy that is being bit and keeps on walking) most peole are not going to be able to jam a dog without a sleeve. Also unless they have a weapon, if the dog is trained right most guys are going to have the wind taken out of thier sales fairly quickly. "
The variables in a real apprehension are vast. Clothing, drugs and alcohol, mental status, physique, even what the bad guy does for a living effect the outcome.
Within law enforcement we encounter people who have incredible pain tolerences and others who have nothing to loose so being bitten is prtetty irrelevent in the face of the alternative....being incarcerated (often when the third strike rule will apply).
To add to the variables are the expereince the dog has in capturing suspects, the quality of the training, not to mention the quality of the dog.
Certainly a very very few dogs seem to have been born with a badge on their chest and the absolute unrelenting desire to hunt and fight it out with the bad guys. But, these are few and far between and don't make up the majority of SchH dogs OR police dogs....even successful ones.
While I was not making light of the injuries that a PSD can sustain on the road, the question asked the differnces about sleeve catches and biting for real. I still do not believe that many human beings without a sleeve can jam a dog up like one could do on a courage test with a sleeve on. But then all criminals are not human. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />
I am very well aware that dogs can get hurt on the road, and my answer was simplified, as to draw the difference between the two.
We all have to remember that there are WORKING DOGS and there are SPORTS DOGS! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />
Too many owners of sport dogs claim they are WORKING Dogs. It's a nice trendy Phrase.Dogs not
exposed to PP&PSD training don't count on them to step up when needed. Very few K-9's meet the critia to become PSD or PP certified.
IMHO, When your K-9 attains a SCHIII, you should cross train in either PP or PSD training. Then you can depend on the protection level required to defend your fsamily and yourself. Until then, it's just a gamble.
I don't gamble. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />
Originally posted by VanCamp: Schutzhund lite? I see how you are, shall we start a thread that "discusses" the differences between the DVG and USA?
<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> hee, hee, I just KNEW that would snag you!! Dangle that hook, and BAM he strikes!! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />
I was curious, how much of the focus on sport, and prey drive has to do with the letigiousness (threat of lawsuit) in society? Has Sch, changed because, society has changed? Having a hard, high fight drive dog is great, but living with one, facing the threat lawsuits and the possibility of owning a dog that may bite its handler or injure a family member is also not for the vast majority of people. Is this why there is an absence of these hard, high fight drive dogs?
My question is do most of the sport people want a dog that has to be locked up when company comes, can't be trusted off lead and needs to be kenneled when not with owner/trainer? Or do you want a dog that can be trusted around guests, is a member of the family that can be trusted around the kids, and won't cause you a heart attack if he runs out of the front door or jumps a fence?
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