stills from a movie

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a56/piqueink/fb242747.jpg

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a56/piqueink/a7f575f8.jpg

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a56/piqueink/8bb89660.jpg

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a56/piqueink/juneonjumbo.jpg

when you open these you can enlarge them by clicking on them.

and sorry, guys, next time i'll photograph him in his cape and tights! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Well, there is more than one photo where he has more than one foot off the ground. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> JKN!! HONEST! He's a nice looking dog. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

here's sam on the job as my pack dog:

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a56/piqueink/72619c34.jpg

here's chloe, who jumped the 7-8' fence, with one of her pups in 1968:

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a56/piqueink/a9170ffb.jpg

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Well, there is more than one photo where he has more than one foot off the ground. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> JKN!! HONEST! He's a nice looking dog. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

thanks, bob. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Do you have any pics of them being catapulted? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

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that's a mastiff. i know they have a lot of issues they didn't used to have. but i have never heard that this aspect of their temperament has changed.

Will posted to this topic that he hadn't seen any that would protect their owners and he'd seen a lot of them. I've heard of how protective they were, but usually from people who were not in situations with them, unlike you, and some stories in the EM books.

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hm. you are asking for a lot. have you found that banddogs fulfill your requirements?

I don't think I'm asking for a lot in a protection dog. The dog doesn't have to work all day or anything <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> I've found that my male from the pound fulfills the protection aspect, but not the athleticism I'm looking for. My female is not mature yet but she's shown a willingness to appoint herself my bodyguard, and she's athletic. Not athletic enough to hop a six foot fence, but that's a good thing <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> I have seen things that disturb me also. On the whole, I'm very happy with both my dogs. They're hilariously funny, which is another main thing I like about mastiff types.

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but mastiff breeders i've known would never test for such a thing. it is just accepted as inherent in the breed. go back and look at the descriptions of the breed's temperament in many of the old mastiff handbooks. tons of stories in those books that are like mine.

The problem with never testing is that you don't know exactly what your producing unless you live in a bad area and you get to see. If you have a litter, there will be some in it that don't have the proper mastiff temperament. Then they get bred, produce more dogs without the working temperament, and so on. After a while, it's gone. Your dog walking 25 miles is unheard of! The breeders I spoke to were concerned about their dogs overheating on long walks that were a fraction of 25 miles.

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barbara, where do you live? if ever i was going to run into a psychotic madman it would have been in hell's kitchen in the 1980s. you know, my biggest fear when i lived there was that i would run into such a person and he would have a gun and shoot my dog. the most protective dog in the world is powerless against a gun. i'd never wish to find myself in a situation that could result in the death of my dog. running up against a psychotic surely could have that result. really, how likely are you to get into such a situation?

I'd never wish the death of my dog either, and if someone had a gun I'd probably instinctively jump in front of the dog. If someone has a gun, a bat or a knife we're goners. I live on eastern Long Island near where flight 800 went down. It was infested with crack heads when we moved here and we harrassed them till they moved or crawled back into their holes. Don't ask, long story. I have other personal reasons for needing a protective dog. So you see, I find myself in some bizarre situations that require me to have a good dog to feel safe <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> It's la la land compared to Hells Kitchen, but crappy to Long Island standards. The thing is, if I see someone smoking crack, harrassing someone, etc. I will say something and get involved no matter what the repercussions. It's a problem I have <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

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i can't imagine any mastiff i've known "loving" that situation. but that doesn't mean he would fold or lose his nerve, either. he wouldn't show stress, and he'd be confident. but he wouldn't be elated, either. he's just doing his job. he neither loves nor hates it. what you describe sounds more to me like a pit bull of the type i haven't seen in a very long time. another good breed that has been ruined. that elation and pride and joy in fighting comes more from the fighting breeds, i would think. so, scratch the mastiff on that requirement.

I've seen this with my male, he loves it. I've even seen it with my female on two occasions where she thought she was protecting and on another where she was deterring something. She hasn't been tested, so whether she will protect and love it when the odds against her seem high is unknown at this point.

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and a puppy probably isn't going to respond by protecting you. the truth is, you really don't know what you have until the dog is older.

Yes I agree, and you don't know what you have unless you've been in a situation to see, with a mature dog.

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i will say that anyone crazy enough to cross a mastiff after that mastiff has demonstrated that he means business is someone crazy enough to carry a gun and use it on your dog. or you. some things in life you just can't protect yourself from with a dog.

Or someone on drugs, or someone determined.

Yeah, drop some links to Ben when you can <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Are you in NY still?

Great pictures!! Very nice looking dogs. I LOVE the brindle one! Those have to be the fittest EM's I've seen <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

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Do you have any pics of them being catapulted? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

jeff, if you are very, very good, i may photoshop some for you. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

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Your dog walking 25 miles is unheard of! The breeders I spoke to were concerned about their dogs overheating on long walks that were a fraction of 25 miles.

not really. true, there are plenty of breeders who would say what you report. there are also plenty who have dogs they regularly take on ten-mile hikes and who are doing lure-coursing and agility. not most, i'll grant you, but they are out there.

i began my search looking specifically for a mastiff for backpacking at high elevations in demanding terrain in summer. maybe i talked to fewer breeders of couch potatoes because right off the bat i was being referred to breeders with more athletic dogs.

but after talking to dozens of breeders and doing tons of research, what i've concluded is that the mastiff is mostly still capable of the kinds of demands i place on it. the thing is, the mastiff will tolerate inactivity, and so he tends to attract people who are not athletic. and those people do not breed for athleticism or working ability.

otoh, there are breeders like lisa, who always went jogging with her mastiffs, and so that is what she expects of them. if you treat them like they are fragile, they will be. if you give them a rigorous, vigorous lifestyle, they adapt to it. keep them lean, keep them in shape, and you have an athletic mastiff.

this is PROVIDED they are physically sound. and in all breeds, of course, finding sound specimens is getting more difficult. if a mastiff comes from health tested lines, and his conformation is sound, and he has no other contraindications, i wouldn't hesitate to put him on an athletic training program.

but few breeders genuinely health test. or they test, and they fail to mention that the dogs didn't pass the tests. always ask to see the certifications!

i know the area you live in. i understand your need for protection. i think just having a big dog will scare the bad guys. it doesn't matter how sweet he is, the bad guys will look at him and see cujo. they will give you a wide berth. i believe this because i lived it. i lived on a block with hookers on the corner and street gangs menacing the avenues. scary. as for your other problem...

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The thing is, if I see someone smoking crack, harrassing someone, etc. I will say something and get involved no matter what the repercussions. It's a problem I have.

please don't expect your dog to rescue you from such follies. frankly, i would be worried that you'd be putting your dog in serious danger. you'll make both of you a target. your dog will pay the price!

i left new york nearly 15 years ago. i live in the northern rockies now. out here we just have to worry about the ted kaczinskis and the freemen. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> actually, i got ben because my husband isn't comfortable with me continuing to backpack alone. the backcountry has gotten a lot more crowded. but it is still much safer than a city.