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... And as if that's not bad enough, Scott has to go and personal and insult my dog <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />...

Please point out exactly where I insulted your dog, specifically.

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... I think I get it now...people with working line, European dogs are top tier, working line dogs from US are cool too but those of us with showline dogs are just tolerated on this board...

Actually, I DON'T think you get it. Most people here have stated that the type of dog a person should get (showline, working line, etc) depends entirely on what they expect from the dog and what their end-goals for the dog are. If you want a pet quality dog, get an AKC line dog. If you want a nice show-type dog or a dog to dabble with in SchH, get a European show line dog. If you want a dog for SERIOUS SchH work, police work or for genuine personal protection work, get a European working line dog.

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...But I can't end this post w/o telling all of you who think my dog's pond scum for coming from German/American showlines... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> !

No one here has said you have an inferior dog, that working line dogs are all that matters and that show line dogs are a waste of time. It all depends on what you expect out of the dog.

I think you need to reread the whole thread.

Opps, Scott, I was kidding. No offense was taken by your showline comment. That's what the smiley faces were for! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Sorry if I didn't make myself clear.

Smiley faces yes. But you posted a angry face after your comment, making it appear as if you were serious.

My mistake.

You're forgiven <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />!

I sent you a PM but, yea, now I can see where someone could view my statement with the <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> guy in the sentence as me being upset. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

My apologies again and, well, back to dogs!

Hi Judy,

I've read this whole thread. I'm hearing too much "all dogs will bite." Absolutely not true. Dogs have bite inhibition (with the exception of a few breeds). Training the dog to bark and have someone run away is building your dog's confidence in his social aggression, that's it. The person running is his reward for barking. Just to let the board know. We've discussed control of the dog if I see he comes out in his defense for a bite when he gets older. I also told you we are going to train the "platz" to shut him off, but that will come once I see real confidence. I'm totally against putting a perfectly stable dog in a corner and whipping him to bite. Your dog has excellent nerves, good level of social aggression, yet low prey drive. We also spoke about building that drive through crating and not exercising him prior to training. When I make Gunnar bark, it is in aggression (sorry guys). This dog is confident in his aggression from a distance at the moment, but it's there and he will deter! All in all, the dog is a good dog. He's too young to put that kind of pressure on him and as we talked about, let's see where HE takes US with maturity. This training IS NOT going to make your dog "unstable." He is a stable dog that is just learning to bark on command. Anyone who doesn't believe that you can take a dog with great nerves and good social aggression and teach him to turned on and off by COMMAND, without becoming unstable, doesn't understand canine behavior. Please stop confusing Judy. And a Bill has passed in NJ. I was told at the NJ League of Municipalities Convention in 2005 by a SPCA Agent that it is now illegal to send your dog for a bite in the State of NJ. This even affect Police. I'll find the bill and post it.

Thanks for hearing me out.

Madelyn

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.....Training the dog to bark and have someone run away is building your dog's confidence in his social aggression, that's it............ He is a stable dog that is just learning to bark on command. Anyone who doesn't believe that you can take a dog with great nerves and good social aggression and teach him to turned on and off by COMMAND, without becoming unstable, doesn't understand canine behavior. Please stop confusing Judy.......

Well, I'm not sure if Judy is confused, but I am.

Let's see.......... Judy posted several questions to the board members, and several people replied with their opinions.

Judy, did this confuse you? Or was it the advice to see the quoted statute for yourself? (My own understanding of the NJ dog bite statute was that it excluded persons who were in a place where "they had no right to be;" I certainly could be wrong, but then I'm not quoting it as fact without citing authoritative text.)

Whooo....... I have a lot more in my mind, but guess I'll leave it; Madelyn hasn't specified yet who is doing all this confusing.

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I'm hearing too much "all dogs will bite." Absolutely not true. Dogs have bite inhibition (with the exception of a few breeds). I'm totally against putting a perfectly stable dog in a corner and whipping him to bite.

Any dog, given enough pressure will bite. Like Will once put it, "even a certified therapy dog, given no other choice will bite". Not that I agree with the methods (cornering and kicking the dogs ass), but that only goes to show that some dogs *shouldn't* be doing this work if they don't have the genetics and ability to do so. Training a dog to bark is fine by me if that's all you need.

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Your dog has excellent nerves, good level of social aggression, yet low prey drive. He's too young to put that kind of pressure on him and as we talked about, let's see where HE takes US with maturity. This training IS NOT going to make your dog "unstable."

The work being done here needs someone who really knows what he/she is doing or they will ruin the dog. Should know where the dog's stress/avoidance thresholds are and work accordingly.

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When I make Gunnar bark, it is in aggression (sorry guys).

As long as you don't put too much preassure that the dog backs out.. I personally don't see that as much of a problem. Having said that, I wouldn't begin this at a very early age. But, that depends on the dog, his temperment,drives, maturity.. etc..

Regards,

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...And a Bill has passed in NJ. I was told at the NJ League of Municipalities Convention in 2005 by a SPCA Agent that it is now illegal to send your dog for a bite in the State of NJ. This even affect Police. I'll find the bill and post it...

Please do. I don't think you're intentionally lying, but if this were true (a State making it ILLEGAL for a certified Police Work Dog to be deployed to apprehend a suspect by biting him) this would have been all over the Police K9 forums and discussion lists and I haven't seen it mentioned once.

Of course, you DID say it was in New Jersey... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

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Hi Judy,

I've read this whole thread. I'm hearing too much "all dogs will bite." Absolutely not true. Dogs have bite inhibition (with the exception of a few breeds).

Madelyn, not to derail the thread, but what breeds would those be that have no bite inhibition?

Is this the NJ Law being referred to:
New Jersey

Liability of owner regardless of viciousness of dog

Statute Details
Printable Version
Citation: NJ ST 4:19-16

Citation: N.J.S.A. 4:19-16

Summary:
This New Jersey statute provides that the owner of any dog that bites a person while such person is on or in a public place, or lawfully on or in a private place, including the property of the owner of the dog, shall be liable for such damages suffered by the person bitten, regardless of the former viciousness of such dog or the owner's knowledge of such viciousness.



Statute in Full:

The owner of any dog which shall bite a person while such person is on or in a public place, or lawfully on or in a private place, including the property of the owner of the dog, shall be liable for such damages as may be suffered by the person bitten, regardless of the former viciousness of such dog or the owner's knowledge of such viciousness.

For the purpose of this section, a person is lawfully upon the private property of such owner when he is on the property in the performance of any duty imposed upon him by the laws of this state or the laws or postal regulations of the United States, or when he is on such property upon the invitation, express or implied, of the owner thereof.