Quote: Molly Graf

I don't feed raw, but I don't have a problem with it - however I would never feed a raw diet especially with bones to puppies. I would start them when they were young adult. If you must feed raw to puppies, then feed the bones pulverized, or take the bones out. I've known of many cases of puppies with punctured gut, and more often impactions due to bone/raw feeding - they simply can't chew, or digest as well as adults can. I recommend feeding a good-quality kibble food, at least until he is young adult, then switch to raw if you want to feed it.

molly

I absolutely disagree with (most of) this.

Molly, you say you don't feed raw so why would you offer advice on something you don't have personal first hand experience with.?

Many cases of pups with punctured gut? Can you tell me more about these cases?

If dogs/pups are ending up with impactions it's most likely from feeding too much bone and not enough meat. There needs to be a balance. Over the last few years I have come to believe that a 'prey model' diet is best.. 10-15% bone, 10% organs, 75-80% meat.

I have been feeding raw since 1994 and have weaned probably 50 plus litters on to raw food. Not one punctured gut. I know of plenty of problems with swallowed foreign bodies, sticks, toys, socks, string, etc.. but bones that puppies can manage to chew and swallow are usually digested quite easily.

If someone is really REALLY leery of bones, then feed ground bones so they get the nutritional benefit at least. Some of my females regurgitate food for their litters, so feeding preground meat/bones is not that unnatural. Some preground commercial raw mixes have very high levels of bone, so be aware of that and add more meat if necessary.I think that the psychological benefits of whole foods are best though.

If you want to feed kibble then do so, but if you are feeding raw please DO NOT leave out the bones.

Not to beat a dead horse, but in your calculations of 85/15% (meat/bones) what exactly are bones and what is meat? I have always fed 60% bones, 35% meat, and 5% organs. However, my ‘bones’ are chicken backs, necks, etc. Would you, therefore, add the meat that is on these bones into the calculation of your ratio of meat rather than bones? I never have, but thinking about it, if I did, my ratio would now not be that far off from yours.

60% bones?? (yes, chicken backs/necks are bones)

No wonder people who feed these ratios end up with puppies with impactions. Why not try the prey model, that's what dogs are designed to eat.

Umm, no impactions here, and the boys are almost two years old. I think someone mentioned on this thread about the experts who feed differently.

Anyone else with a response to my question regarding meat/bones ratio?

I guess I got lucky, my vet feeds RAW to her Rottenwhiners, so when I'm able I'll have expert experienced advice

jan, yes, you should be including the meat on those rmbs as part of your meat/bone ratio calculation.

for heaven's sake, the dog doesn't have to eat rabbit and tripe to be healthy. why not just feed what is cheap and available?

if you want to create more variety, try going down to the local meat processor during hunting season and see if they'll let you have scrap from the deer carcases. the heads are great dog food. and it's free. just make sure to deep freeze all wild game for at least ten days.

 Quote: yuko blum

Jennifer, if you had land with lots of plants to feed the rabbits it would probably be feasible

I have friends and relatives in the Czech Republic that I have visited and who raise chickens and rabbits in back of their houses. None of the houses had extensive back yards, so neither chickens nor rabbits were "free range", but all seemed clean and comfortable. The chickens are in roomy pens, the rabbits are in hutches. None seemed depressed -- at least not until dinner time -- So not a lot of land necessarily needed if you practice good animal husbandry. I'm not sure I could get away with it in my current house, though - zoning laws and neighbors may object.

 Quote: Yuko Blum

60% bones?? (yes, chicken backs/necks are bones)

I have read that chicken necks are 50/50 bone and meat?

Thanks, Alice. My dogs' health, weight, coats, teeth, etc. are telling me all is well, and so was my gut feeling (and, surprisingly, mine isn't punctured either ), but it's also good to know we're basically all on the same page.