Quote: Sarah Morris

Your vet CAN order Adequan and should do so if you ask. If he won't then he's being cheap.

Adequan therapy begins with a loading dose of 2 injections/week for 4 weeks. Then you give it as needed. In my case, I prefer to give it once a month.

Your vet (or vet tech) can teach you how to give an IM injection (if you are comfortable doing so) then write you a prescription for Adequan, which you can purchase online for less than what your vet will charge you. :wink:

Ester-C can be purchased wherever you can find it...I get mine at Costco. Does not need a prescription or a vet.

I give 2 500mg Ester-C tablets in the morning and another 2 in the evening...2000mg each day, right in the food.

Sarah, aren't you the Adequan expert! You should see if they're hiring, lol! So glad it's helped your dog.

Don't you wish more vets would bring it up??? Then again, it's such a simple product...probably not enough people making big money off it.

If I'm an "expert" it's ALL thanks to you, Jenni. Seriously, you helped save my dog from a lot of pain and misery.

And I'll never be able to thank you enough.

Chris Bettin first told me of its existance; but I've been shouting it from the hilltops ever since. Thanks, Chris.

I will use it on what I consider "prone" dogs before problems arise. I may even use it on a pup who will be really large to keep those joints lubricated and cushiony while they're growing, esp. if they're very active.

No thanks needed, Sarah. I'm just so glad your dog is better!

An update: Garm went to see the new vet today and I got VERY different advice. Maybe it is because I was making a bigger deal out of Garm's aggression issues this time and the vet got to witness some of Garm's aggression first hand when he went after an assistant, growling, snarling and lunging as though he wanted to rip him apart simply for existing! This assistant was male, so I think that had something to do with it. There are some males that he seems to be very aggressive toward for seemingly no reason at all. I told her about his nervousness and insecurity issues as well and that it could be a possibility for why he was acting so aggressive.

She gave me several medications to help him. She said she would order me the Adequan, so that we could start him on that soon. She also prescribed Deramaxx in the mean time, the drug that was likened to Rimadyl, for the pain. I showed her the Joint Health medication that I had bought at the pet store and she said that looked great, but also prescribed me something called Skin Formula 3V Caps. It has fish oil with Omega-3 Polyunsaturated fatty acids, plus Vitamins A, D & E. And lastly, for the aggression, paranoia and nervousness, she gave me prozac. I was a little surprised, but when I called my regular vet to ask him if this seemed like a good idea (I wanted a second opinion before giving Garm something that would change his temperment) he also agreed that this might do the trick with Garm.

Garm has been even more aggressive now that he hasn't been getting exercised like he used to and I can tell that it isn't all pain related. He's been attacking his brother more frequently, as well as me, my husband and now sometimes our friends. I was holding Vidar's head in my lap while I was having my coffee yesterday, just stroking his face and telling him what a good boy he was being. Garm came into the room and immediately upon seeing us he growled, rushed toward Vidar and attacked him right in my lap! Just a few days ago he did something similar. My friend, Ffyona, was sitting on the floor playing with Vidar when I brought Garm in from outside. When Garm laid eyes on the scene, he growled, rushed toward Ffyona and bit her on the arm. Ffyona was so shocked and frightened. She told me I might think about having him put to sleep, not re-homed. It really seemed like he was trying to menace her away from Vidar! And he really likes Ffyona. Every time she comes over he gets so happy to have her play with him. Sometimes he attacks Vidar for getting attention, sometimes he attacks the person who is giving him attention. This behavior is really getting out of hand in such a short time. I can't help but think that as Garm gets older and his hip dysplasia worsens, his behavioral problems will worsen too.

This aggressiveness seems to be triggered by jealousy, NOT pain, although I do think that the pain must be making it worse, so I'm willing to wait and see if the pain medication and adequan treatments will make a difference. Garm has always been a jealous dog, but he wasn't the sort to strike out in aggression until recently, so that gives me hope. The new vet said that with very jealous dogs it is not uncommon for them to worsen as they get older and I certainly hope that isn't the explanation. She suggested that we keep our dogs apart, especially when we have friends over, since Garm's jealousy seems to be most triggered by when people give attention to Vidar. She also said that when we do have the baby it is likely that this jealousy will become even worse if we can not curb his jealousy toward Vidar. This really saddened me to hear because it is yet another strike against keeping Garm. I don't think I could bring myself to put him to sleep, but if he isn't suitable for another home I may have to give him up to a shelter and he would end up being put to sleep anyway. I seriously doubt that anyone is going to want a dog with hip dysplasia that also bites unpredictably.

One thing that this new vet said was that with jealous/aggressive dogs like Garm, the best thing to do is to exercise the hell out of him until he is too tired to act up. I've been trying to walk Garm around a lot as his regular vet suggested, but that just isn't doing the trick. I would have to spend four hours walking him around just to do what a half hour of playing fetch used to do for him. I simply don't have that kind of time. I also have to spend time with Vidar too and I know that Vidar has been feeling neglected because we are devoting so much attention to Garm lately.

The new vet said that I have to make a hard decision since Garm has two problems that have conflicting treatments. Should I confine him to this low activity to prolong his life even though it will make him unhappy, aggressive and likely make him an unsuitable pet for our home, or any other home? Or, should I let him play fetch like he used to, possibly shortening his life by a few years, making him happy, less aggressive and possibly be able to keep him or re-home him. I would think the second choice is the better one. I would rather have a better quality of life and live a shorter time than the other way around. I would think that Garm would feel the same way if he understood the consequences.

This decision is very hard for me and I'm not going to make a final decision until I know how Garm will respond to the treatments we are putting him on. The vet said that prozac can take over a month to start really working. My husband is a nervous wreck about it and every time I bring up the topic he just burst into tears and won't consider things logically. My friends who have met Garm are all advising me to either find Garm a new home or have him put to sleep because he is too unpredictable and has the potential to seriously hurt a child. I'd like to know what some of you others out there think. If this was your dog, what would you do?

well, if It were me (And I probably would wait and see how the medication effects the situation) I would definitly not let the dogs come into any contact with eachother; not even in passing because it will affect Vidars trust in you.

As a mother of two...I would see how the meds work. I would exercise the crap out of him because if you don't (to preserve his hips) his life will be shortened even further due to aggression. And if I kept the dog I would NEVER allow it in the same room with my child. I am so sorry for your situation! I know how you feel...my pup is my 'third' kid. So I hope the meds work!

Have you considered canine rage syndrome? This is currently being discussed on another forum I belong too. There is a lot of debate about this syndrome. You can read more about it here, or just do a search:

http://www.thepethealthportal.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=200

http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Meadows/8195/tle.html

Good Luck with your boy.

How old is Garm again? Is it possible that maturity is adding to this problem, and some of this aggression is just male/male stuff? My Chi acts the same way when he sees me petting Caleb-always has. However, it's Caleb he bites (bit-they don't live together anymore), not me, ever. I still feel like his behavior is that of a dog with a screw loose, unfortunately. Pain certainly makes an irritable dog more so, but rushing in and biting a person for petting a dog is inexcusable. If I decided not to keep him, I would put him to sleep. What other home is going to be appropriate? I bet he would be worse for someone else if he's so insecure, but the puppy you described was not insecure, so it's very difficult to pinpoint where exactly this is stemming from. Sorry to seem disjointed, but this one has got me perplexed. I would stick with him and try to figure out what the REAL cause is. Just my gut instinct, but I don't think it's straight HD.

Edited to say that this "jealous" behavior is not uncommon at all at age 2. His behavior is unacceptable, but not uncommon. I would call it possessive and territorial, not jealous. Is he neutered? If so, when was it done? Just trying to rule things out.

Edited by Jenni Williams (01/29/2008 02:07 PM)
Edit reason: found Garm's age

Garm is around 2 years old and he is neutered. He has been since the day the vet declared him old enough for the procedure... I'm trying to remember exactly when but I think it was some time between when he left his puppy socialization class and entered his general obedience class. Vidar is also neutered.

You wouldn't call Garm's current behavior jealous? It certainly looks like a bad case of jealousy. The vet said that dogs can feel just as jealous as people can and from watching the behavior in the dogs it really looks like jealousy to me. Maybe he is motivated by his possessiveness and territoriality, but I think that is just how jealousy manifests in dogs. Garm wants whatever Vidar has, whether it is attention, toys or food.

I think it is highly possible that Garm would not be doing this with a female dog. He hates most males. This used to be confined to dogs, but now I am seeing him react badly with human males more often, particularly if they are tall. I could take Garm near someone who has a dog and I can tell the sex of the dog just by the way that Garm acts when we approach. He will be either aggressive if it is an intact male, or suspicious and standoffish sometimes if it is a neutered male. He will usually be friendly if it is a female. I had thought that Garm and Vidar got on well together until now. They were introduced as pups: Garm was 7 months and Vidar was 5 months. They played very well together back then. There had been some superficial squabbles, but nothing to really worry about. Usually a word from me and making the dogs to go lay down in their separate areas was enough to cure most situations. The dog's maturity could certainly be the ingredient that has upset the mix.

I don't think it's canine rage syndrome. The cases of that I read about said that the dog had no other aggressive tendencies and would just get crazy aggressive out of the blue. I used to think that Garm was doing this out of the blue, but now that I can see that Garm has both jealousy and pain to be pissed off about I am now tending to think that there is a clear reason for why he is doing it.

I started giving him the meds yesterday and playing fetch with him. I was pleased to see he has started acting like his old self again with no sign of aggression. I also started keeping the dogs seperate with a baby gate. I'm just going to see if Garm has anymore outbursts under these circumstances. If he can act normally without having access to Vidar while on the pain meds then it's possible he will be just fine in another home that has no dogs and no children as long as the people continue to give him his meds.

I didn't realize that when Shody Lythe posted an information on
canine rage syndrome. It describes Cody's behavior very well. I didn't know that syndrome does exist.