Good overview, Gloria.

I'm pretty sure, though, that the O.P. has moved beyond the "advice" the terrible "trainer" was giving, and has now begun to embrace positive training, exercise, and especially rebuilding the dog's trust.

It's scary what damage a "trainer" that bad can do. There are different methods, to be sure, but the trainer the O.P. describes is just a disaster. JMO.

The JRT and the O.P. are very fortunate that the O.P. posted here before that trainer did so much damage that the dog was doomed. Again, JMO.




BTW, it may look as if this thread is very heavily anti-correction.

It is. That's because in this case, the dog has been unfairly and even abusively "corrected" so much that many of the posters want the O.P. to focus strongly on regaining trust and rebuilding a bond.

This no-corrections-for-now work can be done without damaging/sacrificing pack structure, IMO.

But of course you're right Connie, perhaps I should have used pack structure in place of instincts, just to be clearer. To me as least they're almost the samething.

That being said, I want to give Francis a big thumbs up for his dilligence in this matter.

Francis, I don't care what the original post says.......You have not failed your dog! You've proved that. Most importantly, to yourself.

Patience, patience, more patience....that is the key.

Randy

Edited by randy allen (07/15/2008 07:35 PM)
Edit reason: trying for clearity

Agreed that giving corrections CORRECTLY won't damage the relationship at all.

The fact that this little guy cowers when it meets some other dogs or barks its head off when encountering something new may not be at all b/c he has "weak nerves"...it could very well be for nearly two years of his life his confidence has been smashed and he is totally unsure of how to react, doesn't trust his mom/dad is there to protect him, and is neurotic on top of all this b/c I'm sorry, ANY JRT owner will tell you a 30 min walk is not enough. I shudder to think what my dog would be like if that is all I did with her...my apt would probably look like a crime scene if I just did that amount of activity. Playing ball a couple times a day for 10 min is not enough.

There is a little Westie in my neighborhood that BARKS AND LUNGES its head off when it sees me and my dog and the owner would always pull and yank it while walking away from me. This same dog is fine with its dogwalker when I encounter it sometimes in the evening and our dogs politely say "hello" and I can't believe sometimes the difference a different handler can make. Maybe Diablo is totally neurotic b/c he isn't ever allowed to get close enough to say hello, the tension on the leash translates into danger/fear from the owner and then he launches and reacts. She needs a good trainer...

The basic question she has to ask herself before she goes to consult another trainer and post more questions about him is: can she meet her basic needs that her dog needs? Can she commit to a bare MINIMUM of one hour of everyday of vigorous exercise? Honestly, I know the breed, this is my second JRT, if her answer to this is "NO" she can't b/c she has a baby and is busy then all the great trainers in the world won't be able to do a damn thing with helping her with establishing pack structure and showing her how to correct/praise for obedience. All of this great advice will be irrelevant if she isn't able to at least fulfill the most basic need of any JRT, and that is ACTIVITY - and LOTS OF IT. Hehe.





Edited by Gloria Hong (07/15/2008 08:19 PM)
Edit reason: spelling

 Quote: randy allen

That being said, I want to give Francis a big thumbs up for his dilligence in this matter.

Francis, I don't care what the original post says.......You have not failed your dog! You've proved that. Most importantly, to yourself.

Ditto!

Gloria, I think you missed ALL the parts where the O.P. was asking questions to clarify where improvements and changes needed to be made. Your neighbors gave up....Francis is still asking questions. :wink:

This thread is obviously getting somewhere. I'm watching it with great interest.

Michael,

Just catching up to all the posts this evening. No, I haven't missed the point of giving advice on providing clarity and making improvements, but the simple fact remains that really high energy dogs that are highly intelligent NEED really, really vigorous exercise. I don''t think at all the OP has "failed", but she does have to take an honest look at if she can meet the basic requirements of her dog.

As a starting point, all this great advice in the world won't do a bit a good if she can't meet that need first.Would you expect a border collie to excel at obedience and understand pack structure if it got one 30 minute walk a day and played with at 10 minute interval - HELL NO! Have you had a JRT? They are "different" and I could go for a 6 mile run with her and she would still be smiling and wagging her tail at me for more....this isn't "typical" of most dogs and people failing to realize this and not able to meet this MOST BASIC need will fail on every level with establishing pack structure and with obedience.

That's just my opinion based on my experience with now my second Jack. No JRT owner that has a balanced dog will tell you a one 30 minute walk is enough. It will be interesting and great to see progress with Diablo...I'm cheering for him.

Oh, with regard to the OP post about cold. My Jack HATES the cold too. I bundle her up with a ridiculous amount of sweaters...she wears two and on top of that a coat and she still shivers...she is a smooth coat so she has less fur than a wire coat or broken coat, but once we get running around she does ok. It's initially getting her out of the door that can be tough some mornings though...this is common, other JRT owners have told me the same too.

 Quote: gloria hong

Agreed that giving corrections CORRECTLY won't damage the relationship at all.

The advice from others (me too) was to forget about corrections for now. QUOTE: BTW, it may look as if this thread is very heavily anti-correction. ... It is. That's because in this case, the dog has been unfairly and even abusively "corrected" so much that many of the posters want the O.P. to focus strongly on regaining trust and rebuilding a bond. END QUOTE

 Quote: gloria hong

... Can she commit to a bare MINIMUM of one hour of everyday of vigorous exercise? ... All of this great advice will be irrelevant if she isn't able to at least fulfill the most basic need of any JRT, and that is ACTIVITY - and LOTS OF IT.

She is a he, I believe, with the spelling "Francis."

Yes, terriers need lots of draining of frustrated energy.

The Border Terriers in my family do best with a TON of physical exercise *plus* the brain-tiring work of positive motivational training. Marker training in short, frequent, upbeat sessions is a good thing.

 Quote: Gloria Hong

Have you had a JRT?

I think thats what he is. I'll go check....

 Quote: michael_wise

This thread is obviously getting somewhere. I'm watching it with great interest.

I'm watching it too, although I admit that after the first two posts from the O.P., I was overwhelmed and depressed. Mainly, it seemed very scary that the "trainer" might be retained.

Who knows ... maybe he (the "trainer") is a well-meaning-but-ignorant person.

But that's not enough to justify keeping him around to finish the destruction he started.

But yes. It's getting somewhere.

 Quote: Michael_Wise

I think thats what he is. I'll go check....

Well? What did you think? Is he?




BTW, my daughter who has the Border Terriers has also had JRTs.

Very similar. Crazy lil bassids, as Old Earth Dog Bob Scott might put it.