Re: My dog's suddenly turned extremely aggressive
[Re: Doug Cohen ]
#250010 - 08/14/2009 01:26 PM |
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One thing I will say actually, Franklin you might want to learn how to read. Jake went to the Vet over a week ago now. Thanks for your kind contribution in such a difficult time though.
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Re: My dog's suddenly turned extremely aggressive
[Re: Doug Cohen ]
#250012 - 08/14/2009 01:59 PM |
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Doug,
Just wanted to say I'm sorry you are going thru this. I can't imagine how tough it must be and heartbreaking. You just need to do what you think is the right thing to do and be ok with the decision either way. This dog may have had some deep underlying problems that you had no ideas about and they are just starting to surface. Good luck with whatever you decide.
p.s. and I definitely dont think you need a fish for a pet, I think from reading your posts you would be a great dog owner...
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Re: My dog's suddenly turned extremely aggressive
[Re: Doug Cohen ]
#250018 - 08/14/2009 04:01 PM |
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I can't really make too many comments as I have never really been in your shoes, but I do think that you have been given some good advice that could have prevented this from happening had it been followed.
Example: you knew the dog has issues with defending its place. Had the dog been kept on lead i.e. tethered to you, it could not have been on your bed. Had you muzzled the dog as suggested, he could not have bitten you. etc.
If you decide to go forward with this dog, PLEASE follow the advice given and take this dog through strict groundwork. I also have more dog than I can chew and this program really works. Buy Ed's DVD if reading the articles aren't clear.
I hope you don't decide to put him down, but again, I have not been in your shoes and I can't judge you here if you decide to do so. Contact Ed if you need to, he has lots of experience with dominant and aggressive dogs. I do think his Pack Structure video covers it, though.
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Re: My dog's suddenly turned extremely aggressive
[Re: Angela Burrell ]
#250019 - 08/14/2009 04:07 PM |
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Doug sorry about what you are going thru. I was just wondering if you ever did the "rough" love with this dog? I have never had to deal with that level of aggression with a dog, other than 2 not getting along, but thankfully it wasn't directed at me. I've seen possessiveness of food with a new dog.
But you brought home a new dog recently, but it doesn't sound like you did much with the separation part for dogs to bond to you and not each other first. You haven't given much adjustment time in bringing a new dog into the home, and an injury that was apparently extremely painful for your dog.
I think Leerburg sells the Ruff Love book by Susan Garrett, it is pretty intensive on nothing in life is free, a very black and white concept for your dog. She also has a great dvd on crate training, and their is also a dvd on dog aggression that Leerburg sells. Only you can make the decision on whether to put your dog to sleep or not. Only you know if you tried everything first, and you need to be concerned for your safety and others.
Angela said it well:
"Example: you knew the dog has issues with defending its place. Had the dog been kept on lead i.e. tethered to you, it could not have been on your bed. Had you muzzled the dog as suggested, he could not have bitten you. etc."
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Re: My dog's suddenly turned extremely aggressive
[Re: Sue Kobus ]
#250034 - 08/14/2009 07:15 PM |
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Hey- just to defend myself here, Jake has never had issues with the bed before. Jake and Sawyer are extremely close, and would frequently sleep on top of each other on the bed. All these issues for the most part are new as of my return trip from LA. Before that, outside of the food based stuff, Jakes never been anything but totally sweet and gentle with me. Jake has never wanted to do anything but get as close as he could to me while we slept.
I don't think Sawyer's been anything but positive for Jake- they love each other and Jake's behavior, before all this, really has only gotten better and calmer since Sawyer moved in. They are always playing and snuggling. Its the exact type of relationship I envisioned when I adopted another dog.
Everything in this thread and his behavior since his paw really started to heal had led me to believe that the aggression was strictly related to pain in his paw, but the treat incident gave me a clue it might go over to his normal behavior. However, he was incident free this week so I gave him the benefit of the doubt. Yesterday though, was strictly the behavior of an aggressive, possessive dog. I'm lucky I didn't lose an eye. It IS my fault for giving Jake the benefit of the doubt, and I shouldn't have made the mistake of leaving the door open. I'm only saying that I have reasons to be shocked about him doing what he did yesterday.
I didn't put him to sleep though. I'm trying to find a way for someone with a more disciplined lifestyle and ability to do something like the NILF program, and more experience with a dog like this, to maybe see if they will rehome Jake. I think Jake is a great dog but I'm not sure he's the dog for me after all this. I work from home, I'm always around Jake, but I'm working and I just can't be on point 24-7. Its just not really possible for me, and unfortunately, as bad a person as I feel saying this, I am just unwilling to have that kind of relationship with my dog anyway.
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Re: My dog's suddenly turned extremely aggressive
[Re: Doug Cohen ]
#250035 - 08/14/2009 07:25 PM |
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On that note as well- anyone have any ideas on how I can try to rehome this dog?
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Re: My dog's suddenly turned extremely aggressive
[Re: Sue Kobus ]
#250036 - 08/14/2009 07:28 PM |
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Doug,
Everyone has made good points, and if you can you should try to revisit this thread for the sake of your foster dogs. For myself, I think euthanasia is the right course. I did discuss your issue with an experienced trainer, someone who does seminars on evaluating difficult dogs, who is a very respected authority on evaluating shelter and rescue dogs. She advised that your dog should be put to sleep.
Sorry that you and Jake had to travel such a rough road to this sad end. Believe me, I know how hard it is. I had a lovely border collie who was very talented on sheep and very very dear to me. I had worked with him for almost a year on aggression issues because I felt almost certain that he would eventually bite someone. Sure enough, one morning while I was asleep and my husband was taking the morning shift, he let my boy out when my daughter's friend came to visit. She walked in the door, reached out her hand saying his name and he lunged and bit her on the face. The attack was entirely unprovoked. I put him to sleep about an hour later.
I caught myself calling my new GSD pup by his name today.... I still miss him so much, but I'm absolutely positive that I did the right thing for him and for my family.
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Re: My dog's suddenly turned extremely aggressive
[Re: Doug Cohen ]
#250039 - 08/14/2009 07:35 PM |
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I want to say I'm sorry that you had to make that kind of decision. It happened to me about three years ago where I had to put a rescue mix to sleep also. He was really good at OB, but he had a serious rage problem. I worked with an excellent trainer who had many years of dog aggression experiences on his rage and behavior problems. We were trying to teach him bite inhibition and try to teach him how to use mouth properly through positive reinforcement. After the last incidence with my sister and mom, I knew it was the last strike.
I was living with my parents at that time. I know they were going to force me taking him back to humane society. I knew they are going to think he is so well-trained that he shouldn't throw out aggressions simply because he knows many commands. I knew he can't go to "average" home where parents and kids give too much affections and freedoms. He was a lot of work.
The decision I made was never an easy one. Still to this day, it was very hard for me to swallow that I knew I failed him; however, it didn't matter how many hours or days I had worked so hard with him. It took me a long time to get over the guilty.
"It's better to be an optimist who is sometimes wrong than a pessimist who is always right" |
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Re: My dog's suddenly turned extremely aggressive
[Re: Doug Cohen ]
#250052 - 08/15/2009 12:02 AM |
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On that note as well- anyone have any ideas on how I can try to rehome this dog?
For the same reason a shelter would not rehome this dog I can't suggest it either. You leave yourself open to a serious lawsuit if your dog bites (or even kills) someone if it has a history of aggressive behavior even if you disclosed it prior to releasing the dog.
In my mind the only two true options are to either decide to train this dog and deal with his issues with a qualified trainer (this is not obedience training) or PTS. Its not really about failing the dog or the easy way out it's about reality. Handler aggression for a dog of this size is almost always a death sentence.
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Re: My dog's suddenly turned extremely aggressive
[Re: Doug Cohen ]
#250082 - 08/15/2009 04:08 PM |
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Yes he did go to the vet over a week ago, and it took you almost a week to take him. Everything people suggest you seem to find reasons not to do them. Like move the crate out of your room so you could sleep in there. But you could not do that because you work at home and when you are out there Jake may start up and you don't have a lot of room in your appartment because it's NYC.
If your appartment is that small why get a dog that would get that big? Did you make all this up so that you could get attention? Not trying to be harsh but it just does'nt sound right. If it is true then i know what you are going through and i'm sorry you have to go through it.
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