 Re: Focused Heeling - yep, a training thread!
[Re: Jennifer Lee ]
#305028 - 11/30/2010 12:06 PM |
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Any tips for a dog who get's suspicious of the wall.
Any channel, you being one side of it. Along the couch, for example.
As Al pointed out on page 1,
.... A couple of things may help you. Start off with your left leg instead of your right, it's a small thing that may help the dog to understand it's a POSITION you're asking for vs a situation .... Also, rewarding from the same hand and place every time can keep the dog from understanding it's a position. This is KC @ 5 months old when it was dawning on him that it wasn't situational http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2K-JGufWHYY&feature=related .
Here's a video I made for someone that condences it all in a coupla of minutes http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAFcNLLeJa4 . We made it kidding around but you can see it's a position just like sit,down, here, etc.
and Kadi added:
... Also, most people are to quick to start walking. Until you can stand in one spot, and turn to both your left and right, 1/4 turns, 1/2 turns and continuous circular turns, take a step forward, backwards, turn backwards, step right, etc with your dog staying in proper position, you really aren't ready to start walking forward. If you can get all of these turns, then your dog really knows where heel position is, and walking, doing patterns, etc will be easy.
Not much channel length needed for either of them to get the position down. 
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Re: Focused Heeling - yep, a training thread!
[Re: Connie Sutherland ]
#305036 - 11/30/2010 12:51 PM |
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Re: Focused Heeling - yep, a training thread!
[Re: Jennifer Lee ]
#305037 - 11/30/2010 12:59 PM |
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Okay everyone, he's not getting it. Maybe I am expecting things too quickly.
I'm trying to get him in the original position. We aren't moving or turning or anything yet. I just want him to sit in heel position, and he doesn't get it.
I lure him into position every time and reward him all sorts of different ways now. But if I don't lure him, he doesn't offer the behavior. He will sit to the left of me, so he understands to be to the left. If he's in perpendicular position, and I say, "nope!" he goes back to the front of me and starts offering other behaviors.
Do I just need to keep luring and rewarding until it finally clicks in his head?
I was thinking about adding a command now, because instead of hearing nope, I think if he hears "heel" or "au pied" he might think to go to my left again instead of back to the front offering different behaviors. And by adding a command I mean luring into position, saying the command, and then rewarding, over and over until finally I think I can start fading the luring again.
Thoughts?
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Re: Focused Heeling - yep, a training thread!
[Re: Katie Finlay ]
#305045 - 11/30/2010 01:25 PM |
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I was thinking about adding a command now, because instead of hearing nope, I think if he hears "heel" or "au pied" he might think to go to my left again instead of back to the front offering different behaviors. And by adding a command I mean luring into position, saying the command, and then rewarding, over and over until finally I think I can start fading the luring again.
Thoughts?
I don't think you should add the command yet. Katie, I probably missed this, but why aren't you using a fence or wall to keep him straight?
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Re: Focused Heeling - yep, a training thread!
[Re: Lynne Barrows ]
#305046 - 11/30/2010 01:28 PM |
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Because he doesn't know to be on my left side yet. I think I need to establish that he needs to be on my left side, and then I can start with the wall work. But I could be wrong.
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Re: Focused Heeling - yep, a training thread!
[Re: Katie Finlay ]
#305048 - 11/30/2010 01:31 PM |
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Because he doesn't know to be on my left side yet. I think I need to establish that he needs to be on my left side, and then I can start with the wall work. But I could be wrong.
If you position yourself next to the wall, then call him and lure him into the left side position, his butt will be in the right place by default... (PS, I'm learning here, too, so feel free to take what I say with a grain of salt!  )
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Re: Focused Heeling - yep, a training thread!
[Re: Katie Finlay ]
#305049 - 11/30/2010 01:37 PM |
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I too have an issue with loki wanting to go back in front of me and offer me a sit then stare at me expectantly not moving at all.
I just tried luring him to sit at my left and he kept ending up all crooked with his butt out and his head in front of me, or he would just prance around having no idea what I wanted. If I get close enough to the wall or table to keep him straight he backs out and is hesistant.
So we gave that up and I went to teaching him to touch a large flat book with his front paws, which he figured out really quickly. Step two is to work on getting him pivot while keeping his front paws on the book. Step three is have him pivot while in the heel position.
here is a video showing what I am trying to do, I don't know if it's the best way to go about it but I figure it's worth a try
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=22dOf88RTiI
I am not sure how I will remove the book from the equation, I will cross that bridge when we get to it
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Re: Focused Heeling - yep, a training thread!
[Re: Jennifer Lee ]
#305092 - 11/30/2010 05:59 PM |
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Katie said;
"I lure him into position every time and reward him all sorts of different ways now. But if I don't lure him, he doesn't offer the behavior."
Although I am a fan of luring, if it isn't done properly and weaned off of properly it becomes a bribe.
Without the bribe there will be no response.
Start again and lure with hand only then mark and reward from your pocket.
It could take a bit since he's now learned he doesn't have to respond if his bribe isn't in sight.
Keeping the reward in sight is one of the reasons people say motivational doesn't work. It MUST be phased out to a random reward just as correction Must be phased out for training only.
You don't go into a competition ring/field with a reward OR correction. If you train constantly with a pinch or e-collar the dog becomes wise to the fact that it's missing in competition unless you wean off of it properly.The dog has to believe that correction OR reward is always a possibility.
Same difference!
old dogs LOVE to learn new tricks |
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Re: Focused Heeling - yep, a training thread!
[Re: Bob Scott ]
#305097 - 11/30/2010 06:49 PM |
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Thanks Bob! That sounds like something I need to do. I'll keep you posted!
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Re: Focused Heeling - yep, a training thread!
[Re: Bob Scott ]
#305107 - 11/30/2010 08:27 PM |
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Katie said;
"I lure him into position every time and reward him all sorts of different ways now. But if I don't lure him, he doesn't offer the behavior."
Although I am a fan of luring, if it isn't done properly and weaned off of properly it becomes a bribe.
Without the bribe there will be no response.
Start again and lure with hand only then mark and reward from your pocket.
It could take a bit since he's now learned he doesn't have to respond if his bribe isn't in sight.
Keeping the reward in sight is one of the reasons people say motivational doesn't work. It MUST be phased out to a random reward just as correction Must be phased out for training only.
You don't go into a competition ring/field with a reward OR correction. If you train constantly with a pinch or e-collar the dog becomes wise to the fact that it's missing in competition unless you wean off of it properly.The dog has to believe that correction OR reward is always a possibility.
Same difference!
Great information- thank you for taking the time to type it out!
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