Quote: jenny arntzen

Please don't put Rocky in situations where he is going to be over-stimulated. When he is barking and lunging that reinforces the behaviour, it doesn't help him learn a new strategy for dealing with unknown situations. Why would you be walking him up to a calf? Don't you want him to leave the livestock alone?

I understand what you are saying, but the reason I did it was on the advice of a friend who told me that maybe he is just curious about them and that by letting him be among them it would cure his curiosity...since that time he hasn't even so much as looked at the cattle. I also do this with my children...if they are unsure of something and not really scared, but keep trying to get to it and everything else I do still doesn't stop them, I let them "experience" it (not so they get hurt, but so the curiosity is gone) once they see it is not really something they want then they leave it alone. No, I don't want him to bother the cattle, but I also know that with 7 children there may be a time that the gate to our yard is left open and Rocky can get out. I want him to know that they won't hurt him and he will not be permitted to hurt them.

 Quote: jenny arntzen

Then teach him to be disinterested, not overly interested and lunging at it. You don't want him in situations where there is anxiety or stress. It isn't about fear per se, it is about over-excitement and acting on that.

So, how do I teach him to be dis-interested in something that he won't leave alone? When I try what you mentioned, "look at that" he wants to take off after it...I don't let him, but it's like it makes his curiosity that much more...If you have watched the Basic Dog Obedience video by Ed Frawley Rocky is a lot like the GSD puppy that is very active...he is hard to work with bec of all his energy.

 Quote: jenny arntzen

I would interpret this as dominance display. From everything you have said about Rocky, being friendly to strangers, unknown dogs or livestock is not in his repertoire. What stopped him from following? Did he stop himself? Or did you stop him with the drag line?

He was not acting dominant in any way...just curious. He stopped himself...I gave him a few commands, he did them, he stayed with me (wasn't pulling me) and wanted to get closer to see about the other dogs. I kept him in the road with commands. I can tell when he is upset or unfriendly and he was fine...no display of anything other than curiosity.

 Quote: stephanie bishop

If he is not a sports dog I would look into Ceasar Milan.

I actually used Cesar Milan's methods in the beginning of my puppy training bec no one would help me. I had never heard of Leerburg and our breeder said to wait on training him at all until he was 2 years old. My original goal was Schutzhund , but even while our breeders dogs are all schutzhund trained he won't teach another person to train them...he wants to train them and I would never let him train my dog. He is very mean to his dogs. Which we found out by developing a relationship with him after we got Rocky.

 Quote: stephanie bishop

Yes He does need socializing. Get his attention when there are other people.

I worked on that a lot on our trip and in the end he was fine with people at a distance. Even when he wasn't fine with them, I would stop him and do a few obedience commands, reward him and we would be on our way. Once I "reset" him, he was fine.

As for our park...I checked and they don't allow dogs even on the wooded trails.

 Quote: stephanie bishop

you already have a pre concieved notion that because he was never brought around many people or places that he is going to have a bad reaction.

That is only bec he has tried to bite nearly everyone who comes to our house.

 Quote: stephanie bishop

Make your dog understand that you will be protecting HIM from strange people and he will not feel the need to be in front of you causeing the scary people to back up.

I follow what you are saying, but I have been trying for a long time, even as a puppy and he just jumps in front of me to get at what ever is "in front me." I have worked with the donkey and Rocky - using Cesar Milan's methods of using my energy to control both animals and when I tell Rocky to sit and stay as soon as I turn my back he comes up to me...The donkey just stands there. So, I have started working with Rocky on staying when I am out of sight. I had not gotten to that part of the "stay" training. I can now walk out of sight for about 15 seconds and he will stay.

 Quote: stephanie bishop

If you were the pack leader..he wouldn't react to anything or anyone with out your ok. because the pack leader decides when to eat, hunt, protect, fight ect. ABSOLUTELY NO ONE ELSE in the pack gets to choose that. You may be HIS female counter part leader..but He does NOT see you as his leader if he is deciding what to do and when.

I guess my biggest issue with this is that short of keeping him in his crate (outside) when I am in the house I don't know what else to do. I do decide everything for him except when he is running in the yard for his exercise - I like to let him out for several hours bec I know he needs the exercise. He can't come in the house due to our house being so small and there are so many of us. And I can't stay outside all day. Our house is only 650 sq ft and there are 9 of us who live in it. Any suggestions?

Theresa, I'm skimming a lot so I don't know exactly what you've been doing, but just a couple of points I saw. Dogs act in thier own self interest. They don't protect you unless it serves them and they've been trained. Rocky is doing what he's doing out of fear. There's probably some prey drive kicking in here and there, but the reacting and lunging at what he see's as a threat comes from fear.

I wouldnt encourage him to look at something you want him to ignore and then reward him. I would worry that your teaching him he can do what he wants and give his attention back to you when he feels like it.

I would teach him to leave it. Especially the donkey. I think thats something dangerous for him so he'd be corrected every time he looks at him.

Rocky is a dog, not one of your kids. Experiencing things is different for him. I would stop the comparisons and never mind trying to figure out dominant, pack leader, etc...

Figure out exactly what you want Rocky to do, and train for it. All the other stuff falls into place if he is obedient.

Just to be clear: Look at That is not telling the dog to look at something. It is acknowledging that the dog is already looking at something and you want his attention back on you. You do not correct him for something catching his attention, you reward him looking quietly and then giving his attention back to you when it has momentarily wandered.

You see Rocky looking at a calf. Look at That (click) because he is quietly looking at something, not lunging or barking. The click turns his head back to you to get a treat, because he associates treats with the click. BTW - this will only work if the sound of the click means TREAT to Rocky. If the clicker hasn't been conditioned for him (ie. it doesn't mean anything) then he isn't going to be swinging his head back to look at you when he hears the click. The other key to this working is that you have to be calm. Rocky looking at a calf has no more meaning than Rocky sniffing a blade of grass. There is no fear or excitement about him looking at things. Because the calf is far enough away.

Here's how I explain it to myself: I reward Jethro for calming looking at things and then giving me his attention. I reward him for giving me his attention in low stress situations when there isn't arousal. When he is getting aroused, I use Look at That to supplement the exercise we are doing already when there isn't a big distraction. Look at That helps him do what he does normally, but in a more demanding situation. If I can't get him to Look at That, I say to myself, Handler Error, and move him back or away or around the thing that has his attention because he is over-aroused. I do not let him move any closer, because that is only going to increase his arousal. He is letting me know he is not comfortable by not responding to Look at That.

" I do decide everything for him except when he is running in the yard for his exercise - I like to let him out for several hours bec I know he needs the exercise. "

I would suggest making sure he is getting a fast, structured walk (ie. loose leash mixed with Heel) for not less than 45 min. a day (or 2 or 3x a day). Expecting Rocky to exercise himself outside when there are so many distractions appears to be setting him up for failure.

When you click for look at that, your don't reward that? Its marked, but not rewarded?

What if he decides to react as soon as he looks, something as simple as a growl or hackling or something? Do you correct for that? I'm not meaning to argue anything, I'm just trying to follow it because it seems kinda tough to time things with it and get the correct associations with what you want and don't want.

Steve is right, the timing for using a technique such as "look at that" takes experience to pull off. If the OP wants to use that technique she should get the book and learn more about it in detail. I would also reccomend at least one secondary source of information for learning more about canine body language and communication.

Its not to say that it is ineffective, but reading the dog is important in that sort of counter conditioning. If you can't read the dog its going to be a waste of time.

There are a couple different stages to "Look at that". First, you need to teach the dog the game and teach him that it's highly rewarding. You do this indoors or in a low key environment. For the OP, this would not be the yard at this point.

You're in a quiet room, Dog looks at random object, you click and reward with high value treat. Basically you're teaching him that you can be aware of you're surroundings, but you can also be calm about it. And that turning attention back on the handler is highly rewarded.

Then, when this is solid, you can gradually work your way towards the distractions. What I like about the idea of "look at that" is that it can change the mental state of a dog that is a bit unsure about it's surroundings. Instead of "oh no there's another boogie man - what do I do???? react" it becomes "I see someone coming, where's my reward?!?"

What do you do if he's not calm?

Not to totaly derail the thread, but the problem with look at that when it comes to this situation is that what the OP is seeing is likely more than the dog being uncomfortable around the farm animals.

I know somebody who paid a lot of money to a pure positive trainer to try and stop her JRT from fixating on her cat. Look at that was one of the reccomended techniques. Its now been two years and the dog and cat still have to live in seperate parts of the house.

In the mean time the dogs fixation on the cat has turned into aggression.