Steve, back in the old days you didn't have to put a bh on first i had trained my first dog from a puppy and took him with me when i was hired for k9 years later i trained a pup for service work w/ drug detection back then it was schutzhund vs k9 training . so i decided to put a title on him and titled him sch 1 then 2. i later i bought a problem sch 2, i titled him to sch 3 the competed with him in the 91 USA North American Championships. sold him bought mal puppy for service work. sch 2 was getting old also had a lab i competed with in the USPCA national Drug Dog Championships then handled/trained a import Dutch Shepherd for k9 then retirement now a puppy mal puppy

i guess steve over the years i'm heard a lot of people talk about there dog and training. my response let's see him. i was always willing to back my training with my dog. my service is passed on.. all i have is the pup in 1 1/2 years. i'll be ready to back it up on the field.lol
i was with the guys from the unit today they were laughing that i just love to stir it up i guess they are right. one said don't worry in a few years training will be back to the old ways lol.

bottom it's just dog training. if it was that hard, we would be working at NASA
If i have offended anyone i would like apologize

CJ is right my fingers are all typed out lol john

It's not a matter of being offended John, or stirring anything up. Its not too often someone is so dismissive of anyone who hasnt trialed a dog replying in a thread about basic manners for pet owners.

This wasnt about marker training retrieve's or focused heeling. It was being befuddled (Thats an old guy jab) about your puppy not minding when your pockets empty. I wasnt sure if it was just impatience on your part, or maybe you've always started with older dogs that allready had a foundation in training.

 Quote:

one said don't worry in a few years training will be back to the old ways lol.

Yeah. Rotary phones too.

 Quote: steve strom

... Its not too often someone is so dismissive of anyone who hasnt trialed a dog replying in a thread about basic manners for pet owners.

This wasnt about marker training retrieve's or focused heeling. It was being befuddled (Thats an old guy jab) about your puppy not minding when your pockets empty. I wasnt sure if it was just impatience on your part, or maybe you've always started with older dogs that allready had a foundation in training.

This was my irritant.

The thread isn't about marker training. Tried and tried to find marker training (the real thing, I mean, including proofing, including the "variable reward schedule once she has caught on to a command," etc.

As Bob said, the issue is training management, period.

 Quote: steve strom

Thats an old guy jab

I'll "old-guy jab" YOU, you young whippersnapper ....

When did you become an old guy (You don't need to mention the befuddled)

 Quote: steve strom

When did you become an old guy (You don't need to mention the befuddled)

LOL

bottom line is i don't care for marker training if it works for you great. i do tend to dismiss people .every day someone tells me how great they're dog is. show me what you know (video, demo ) don't tell me. anyone can talk theory.

What do you want to see?

Guys, even if we do not agree with his training method, or think he would experience more joy in marker training, let's remember we are all at different stages, all have different preferences etc.
I know how great it is to leave the old ways and embrace the new, and it is hard to not try and convince someone to do it a way we consider better or more rewarding for trainer and dog. However, let's just ease up a bit. I agree it is too much pressure for a puppy, but John will have to find this our for himself just as some of us did.
John, I am glad you do not beat your dog. I am glad you want a well mannered dog, I am glad you want to train your dog. We all are. Just don't be too hard on all of us, we love dogs and know the things we did wrong with our dogs and wish we could have changed them. We just want to pass that along to you.
We don't want your puppy's spirit to be beaten down, or hindered or if the pup is truly too young in years or maturity for the pressure of distractions, it can cause the pup to hate training. You do not want that. I have 3 rescues, someone thought they were training them, it has taken me quite a while to get them to even keel. They were handled roughly, or given too much stress at a young age, and it has affected them, really affected them. We are just warning you.

Let's not be defensive and learn from each other. Isn't that why we have the forum?
Thanks sharon