Quote: Mara Jessup

And please note - I am NOT recommending you go start taking things away from your dog to test your leadership skills. I'm just saying that because I'm a leader in their eyes I've earned the right to do so. And I never exercise that right arbitrarily, only as needed and in a fair manner.

i already can. i think anyone should be able to. i also can stick my hand in his mouth and take out whatever he tried to swallow.
so that means i'm a leader lol?

it just means the doggie doesn't have too many choices IMO.

you're saying that if the dog doesn't respect you then he'd fight you? that's what leaderhip means? respect?

 Quote: Tracy Collins

Natalie, go ahead. Try to train your dog or set boundaries without projecting leadership. You may have great success. If so, let us know about it.

We're trying to give you advice on ways that we have already tried and found successful. Take the advice for what you paid for it. You did ask for advice, right?

All of us pick and choose from among the advice we get from each other, incorporating what works and disregarding the rest. Most folks, however do the disregarding with a modicum of grace.

no, i didn't ask for advice, i was trying to have a discussion.
i still learn from it though, that's why i like discussions.

why is me not agreeing being taken as graceless? how should i have said this for it to not sound bad to you?

i'm used to saying what i mean, i'm not good at dancing around the bushes. most people like it. i like it in others.

 Quote: Tresa Hendrix

You CAN learn to lead an animal. To lead an animal, you have to learn how they think and how to reinforce the pack rules. The only thing else you need is confidence and that comes with experience, regardless of your temperament. It just takes some longer than others, some people are natural leaders, some are not. But even a timid person can learn how to train a difficult dog...just like a shy timid dog can be taught to perform in agility....I had one, she did great.

yeah so isn't it more about consistency and repetition? not leading?

i have such a problem with this leadership concept because that will mean i can never have a well behaved dog and i'd like to not believe that.

My apologies. I assumed you were a novice dog owner with some dog behavior issues, and you'd come here for advice from a community of people who enjoy sharing their experience. Because they care about dogs. Not intellectual jousting.

I'm not interested in your argumentative style of discussion. Others may be.

If at some point, you are looking for advice, I'll be glad to share what I've learned. Until then.

 Quote: Tracy Collins

My apologies. I assumed you were a novice dog owner with some dog behavior issues, and you'd come here for advice from a community of people who enjoy sharing their experience. Because they care about dogs. Not intellectual jousting.

I'm not interested in your argumentative style of discussion. Others may be.

If at some point, you are looking for advice, I'll be glad to share what I've learned. Until then.

Big ditto here.

Natalie, I wish you and your dog well, but I'm not playing anymore.

 Quote: Tracy Collins

My apologies. I assumed you were a novice dog owner with some dog behavior issues, and you'd come here for advice from a community of people who enjoy sharing their experience. Because they care about dogs. Not intellectual jousting.

I'm not interested in your argumentative style of discussion. Others may be.

If at some point, you are looking for advice, I'll be glad to share what I've learned. Until then.

Ditto,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jXSYybCVxVM

i don't know where you might've gotten the idea that i was asking for advice in this thread but ok. i totally understand that some people are not interested

Tresa hit it on the head.

Having confidence in what you are doing is projected. That confidence is what urges people to follow you. You may not be a leader of men because you are less confident in what you do than others around you. If you are the subject matter expert in the room, people will gravitate to you and follow your lead.

With dogs it is the same way. Yes, you provide structure, boundaries, limitations, rules, entertainment, food, water, shelter... all those things are very important. They are not the complete package of a leader.

You see it many times with new handlers that have much experience with leading men, but know nothing about dogs. They get their new partner and it runs all over them. I can walk up, take the leash, and work with the dog right away. I am confident in what I'm doing. I never waffle about the situation. If a dog is more confident than you are, it is the leader in it's mind, and will be making the decisions.

You're not projecting some "leadership halo" or anything like that. It's the language of dogs that you are "projecting." It's chemical, posture, expression, pitch tone and inflection of your voice, the way you move and the way you react to their posture and actions. It's most easily described as projecting leadership, but it's not (IMHO) some kind of energy.

Who is in charge in this picture?

http://i470.photobucket.com/albums/rr69/dwinners/Fama/DSC_6416.jpg


This confidence comes with experience. The best way to get this experience is by working with people that already have it.

The reason you are experiencing friction with the board here is that you are speaking with certainty about leadership in disagreement with centuries of dog training experience. The fact is you are behaving like a know it all 13 year old who won't listen to their parents. Sometimes your tone is disrespectful, and that isn't accepted well by members with so much experience who are trying to help you. According to leading animal behavior experts from Tufts, your opinion is wrong. According to leading trainers in many fields, your opinion is wrong. According to most people in the industry I have encountered over the years, your opinion is wrong.

If you have something to bring to the world of animal behavior that none of us understand, please share it with us, but you must include data which backs up your claims. You have formed an opinion out of your experience with a handful of dogs, so you do not have this data. Feel free to argue all you want to after you have the experience to back it up. Until then, I would suggest you treat the board members with a little more respect.


I speak only for myself here, and it is just my opinion and some free advice. Everyone here wants you to be successful with your dog. Right now IMHO your attitude is in the way of your success. You are defending a position you know nothing about. How can that be productive?

Some people are born leaders.
Some can learn to be leaders.
Some can pretend to be leaders when they mimic what leaders do and still never understand why they do it.
Some will remain clueless for a lifetime.
leadership with dogs is a way of life.
It's understanding how to work with the dog's natural behaviors and instincts to convey what you want the dog to do and how to get it with as little conflict as possible.

This is NOT a personal attack on anyone in particular. It's nothing more then most my 68 yrs of observing relationships between people and their dogs. It can be anything from amazing to a "WTF", doomed to fail situation.