Quote: Duane Hull

That's why I mentioned backchaining the retrieve. Once my dog learned to hold the item, she learned it had value and she started developing drive for it. If you cannot build enough drive for the game, you may at least be able to build some drive for the object.

This is a genuine pearl of wisdom from Duane. I also used backchaining to teach the retrieve to my two. (Neither of them are natural retrievers, and they both have far more food drive than toy or tug drive.)

I realize this thread is about playing tug, not retrieving,but I think the backchaining philosophy and method can work similarly. Duane's simple statement explains not just how it works but why it works.

Hi all,

I might add my two cents in. But first I will start by saying I am in no way an expert. This is from my personal experience.

I've worked hard with my Amstaff, which you could say is similar to a pitbull on playing tug.

The initial picture of him playing tug with me 3 months ago:
-place object in mouth
-run with it
-try to chew it to pieces

Picture now:
-I can play a constructive game of tug 2-3 times of week max for no more than 1-2 minutes at a time otherwise he will get bored.
-he is still on the leash because he decides every now and again to run.
-It will almost certainly never be a functional reward in our obedience, we use food.

What i have noticed about my boy...
-hes stubborn.
-he isnt toy driven
-he isnt sensitive to my energy levels (so if i amp myself up, he isnt overly responsive).

Factors that were preventing my tug game from progressing:
-I was being overbearing (presented the tug too often and tried to play even if he didnt want to)
-Tug material....he loves french linen, hates synthetic and funily enough he likes to play tug with his rubber holee rolee (the thicker blue one)

Ways i improved tug:
-he only sees these toys 2-3 times a week for no longer than a minute
-i judged his state of mind before even thinking of busting out a tug toy. If he was amped up...i.e run into me, acting playful, id bring it out.
-I didnt tug all that hard, if at all, when he bit with enthusiasm. Once he built the confidence to charge at the tug that moves away from him, i introduced a more rigorous tug to build his grip confidence.

Learnings.....
tugging isnt for all dogs
genetics matter (drive levels)
imprinting during 8-16 weeks as a puppy makes a difference
build on the reward system that actually works to get the most out of your dog.
you can create a reward experience with tug by working on it, however, it will probably never be as functional or satisfying as their other means of reward.

I'm currently fostering a working lab puppy that will become a detector dog. He is mad for tug/chasing so we are working on that as it will be his primary reward for working (as advised by the department that have given me the dog). He is also super person orientated, and for him, toys dont mean much unless they are in my hand. This tells me that genetics do matter, in the difference i have seen between my amstaff and lab.

Although, im sure someone like ME could get far more out of my Amstaff than i ever could :S

Not a fraction of a year, Nicole!
Thanks to you all for trying to help me. All your advices are worth trying.Every dog is different and so I prepared myself for a long time of trying out different ways and different toys. You know about how many many toys I had bought and today came the great surprise. I had the impression this morning that the Lab was really in playing mood.
The nearest thing I just had was not one of my toys but some old weak cloths. I began to move it from left to right and vice versa and she grabbed it and tugged and tore it
to pieces. Within 3 minutes I had to sacrifice 5 cloths. I know, this is not yet the right way of tugging, but a wonderful beginning. She also outed immediately when I made the bait seem dead. This evening I will try it with a more durable thing, a soft monkey, whom she loves for playing fetch.I will fix it on a leash and then let's see!

Second miracle: with the cloths I also tried it with Charlie,my stray, who has never learned to play at all. But he immediately played like crazy.
What strange animals those biests are!!!