New England GSD rescue has had quite a few success stories with their rescued dogs - that's your area I assume Josh?

For politically correct reasons, and to spare some people involved, lets just say...yes it's my area, yes GSD rescuce donates dogs to a large state organization for PSDs. It also is the case that this organization by written directive can ONLY, ONLY accept donated FREE dogs into their program. Do some work, yep, would I personally want 90% with my handlers or with me...NOPE! Just because it says it came from rescue and now works for a PSD does not make it quality or correct. If you had lots of slots to fill and were only allowed donated, dogs, I don't think it's about the quality of the dogs as it is just needing dogs to fill the slots. Site all the dogs from GSD rescue working as PSDs in this area, and I'll find you more local municipalities and agencies who don't want to work with them for their lacking skills and ability. Not sure why you are on such a kick to prove that some can do it, no one is saying they can't, just it's rare.

I hate getting involved in police topics because I am not a LEO and I feel strongly that non LEO should not comments on things that they have no knowledge of. I wish more of us thought like that. So without taking sides can we please keep this to a dull roar? Thanks.

My posts were just "FYI" posts. Not intended to imply anything - just to provide information. I will not be posting in this particular forum again, since I'm not a LEO. (I'm a Pisces...) <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> Cheerio!

Sorry Vince - did not mean to offend anyone. I am not a LEO but I am in rescue - so that is where my experience comes from.

Not trying to start any arguments - just thought it would be interesting for people to know that states including Florida, New England, New Jersey State Police, New York State Police, Austin Police Force, Air Force, K9, SAR, coast guard, sheriff's offices, dept of corrections, ground zero, you name it - rescued GSDs are there. I was approached by the OPP in Ontario. That's all I was trying to say. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Most of the larger departments I've been associated with buy green dogs and train thier own. Unfortunately many of the small departments have neither the funds or expertise to do that, so they end up buying a dog from a vendor. At that point it is caveat emptor, or buyer beware. I've not been associated with any large department that has only a 4 - 6 week course, most are 10 to 12, with a required 16 hours in-service per month. A lot of departments do buy "trained" dogs, and then the handler gets a 2 to 6 week handlers course before putting the dog on the street. Often times the department may have only a few dogs, and no one that has much experience other than what was recieved in the handlers course. Those departments that have staff canine training positions, usually fare much better. One thing I would love to see, in police canine anyway, is for the state to take a more active role, and require the POST commissions to establish certification criteria. that way any dog used or purchased by an entity of that state, including cities and counties, would be assured the dog and handler met a minimum level of certification prior to being allowed to work. To date, very few states have any mandatory requirements.

DCFrost

DFrost, I'm with you on the standards issue. "Green dogs" are the way to go IF you have the training capacity. In my area, many agencies put green dogs on the street after 4-6 weeks of total formal training and continue the training progress throughout the year.

Consequently, the k-9 guys are told that "If they get 1 find" (suscpect tracked successfully) in their ENTIRE first year, they are doing well. Last year our 9 year old veteran dog had about 18 successful tracks and all four other k-9s (ranging from 0 to 5 years experience) had only 5 successful tracks between them.

Its also important to remember that 95% of the 18,700 police agencies have less than 100 officers. My dept. has about 110 sworn and is in the 95th percentile in terms of size... but obviously still very small compared to NYPD or LAPD etc.

Dave Lilley wrote: DFrost, I'm with you on the standards issue. "Green dogs" are the way to go IF you have the training capacity. In my area, many agencies put green dogs on the street after 4-6 weeks of total formal training and continue the training progress throughout the year.

LC: Not sure how I missed this thread, I’ve had a bit of success with my selection test. You can see it at

http://www.uwsp.edu/psych/dog/LA/castle1.htm

LC: Using it in over 20 years of selecting dogs I’ve not had one dog wash out of training or fail to perform in his first deployment on the street. This means that he bit well when it was appropriate.

LC: In this part of the world, the Los Angeles area, most departments purchase sport dogs that have been trained in Europe and then imported by local vendors. The handlers go to a school, usually lasting about 5 weeks where they learn to handle the dogs and the dogs learn police work. Most of those departments have maintenance contract with their vendor and work with him twice a month. Some agencies have internal trainers who do all of the training. Some have internal trainers who do the maintenance training after their handlers attend the vendor’s school.

Dave Lilley wrote: Its also important to remember that 95% of the 18,700 police agencies have less than 100 officers. My dept. has about 110 sworn and is in the 95th percentile in terms of size... but obviously still very small compared to NYPD or LAPD etc.

LC: Add to Dave’s figures that 75% of the departments have less than 10 officers.

Nice post Lou. I think that is the way that it still works in my neck of the woods also. My father imported sport and police dogs for the police and sheriff departments before he died. They were all titled in Europe and then were sold and converted to PSD stuff by the departments themselves. That was some time ago and conversion training was not very good. Understanding of training was not very wide spread, still isn't in some places I guess. Thats why we all need to be talking about this stuff.

Hey Vince, if the sport people never talk with the LEO people then how is overall training and quality of working dogs going to improve in this country. I think there needs to be MORE discussion between the two disciplines about any type of topics. Take a lesson from the SV and their falling out with the German Police. That was the worst possible thing that could have happened to the GSD in that country. I understand LE being a little cagy about tactics and stuff, but training principles and selection of working dogs is super important to us all. That's my, not at all humble opinion, as you can see by all my posts in the LE sections of this board. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Vince, I'm not talking about all the rescue stuff, that is pretty lame. This thread is a little to old for me to remeber how that came up, but looking back it is still pretty lame. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />