Absolutely, some of the judging changes in the last 10-12 yrs ARE directly due to social pressures in Germany. The increased value on control (for example, requiring the dog to sit calmly prior to being released for the courage test as opposed to the wild ravings that were allowed previously), the emphasis on calm grips and reliable outs are part of the PR effort by the SV to make the sport more pallateable to the public. The happy obedience also makes the dog look, to the public, like he is a social, safe animal who is willing to remain under control.

The perception that a hard, aggressive dog has to be kept penned up all the time isn't correct; but it does have to have the right handler or it can be dangerous. And living here in the US, where lawsuits are everywhere, I personally have no desire at all to teach my dog to bite a person for real or to rely on him to protect me (I heard all those gasps from you "real dog" people!! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> ) . I simply cannot afford to and will not take that risk.

I will second sch3fh2's opinion: I live in NYC, in Manhattan. While I am very interested in Sch, I have to be VERY VERY careful every single time i walk the streets. Kids run right up to the dog, with hands out and yelling, reaching out to oet the dog. People with big shopping bags on crowded sidewalks will not lift the bags up, and will let the bags hit the dog in the head as we walk past. Not to mention every kind of loud traffic noise, drunks doing all kinds of things on the sidewalk, homeless people, etc. To have a "real" dog for me would be a huge liability, if not suicide. On the other hand, these "real" dogs that are super tough and are at the pinnacle of the dog world as PSD's DO work the street! While a super tough and "real" dog may be the best the breed has to offer, as a PSD it still has to interact with the public! And imagine one of these "real" dogs as a K9 on the NYPD patrolling Manhattan with its MILLIONS of people! Is Sch realy that damaging to the breed?

When most crediable dog trainers talk about a real dog, it does not have to refer to the dragon under the stairs the the Monster' s owned. While I am all for socialable dogs there is a B title that must be attained before competing in Schutzhund to test a dogs temperment, whichh does to some degree weed out the kooks when applied and no fudging is invovled. That solves that.

As far as the present rules go, more crap dogs that are nervy, and not the best dogs to have around (scared critters who are under extreme stress) eg.showline dogs - are given titles. These dogs are by far a liability then alot of other dogs, so the the theory which has been applied does not hold much weight when looking at it from that point of view.

Noone is suggesting at least, I am not that we allow crazy biting machines who hate the world to be the winners; but a dog that is bitng 3/4 can also be in fight, but channeling that fight to the sleeve, which a dog with a full mouth grip is and can be doing already. This calm grip has only allowed the weaker dogs to prevail and stronger ones that we need for work to suffer.

When most crediable dog trainers talk about a real dog, it does not have to refer to the dragon under the stairs the the Monster' s owned. *lol* Good visual!

Originally posted by Michael Talyor Rivers:
As far as the present rules go, more crap dogs that are nervy, and not the best dogs to have around (scared critters who are under extreme stress) eg.showline dogs - are given titles. These dogs are by far a liability then alot of other dogs... I agree with what you say except this part. Showline dogs don't have strong nerves and won't withstand a lot of pressure (in general) BUT they aren't a bunch of scared critters who are a liability in public. They are just nice, laid back throw rugs, usually very stable animals and make outstanding family pets.

Originally posted by Sch3FH2:
Originally posted by Michael Talyor Rivers:
As far as the present rules go, more crap dogs that are nervy, and not the best dogs to have around (scared critters who are under extreme stress) eg.showline dogs - are given titles. These dogs are by far a liability then alot of other dogs... I agree with what you say except this part. Showline dogs don't have strong nerves and won't withstand a lot of pressure (in general) BUT they aren't a bunch of scared critters who are a liability in public. They are just nice, laid back throw rugs, usually very stable animals and make outstanding family pets. I also agree in part. I have been around a few show dogs that are chewing on chain link to get at you, or if you move to suddenly it will snap out then retreat type deal. But I do agree that you find this in all types of dogs. I was just generalizing to make a point.