My experience with mastiffs is that they are,normally not a dog you would get if you want a guard and protection dog.

A friend of mine bred mastiffs,but has now gotten Italian Cane corsodogs instead.

those mastiffs that are good movers and have some of the old mastiff spirit in them,i just say:GREAT!!! = )
I wish there were more of them out there,and i would love to see one!

Here is my first boerboel,a female called Natt.She would have been a great dog if it werent for her hip dysplasia.
She was an athletic,protective dog.

Nice pictures Helena <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Now that the boerboel club has forbidden dogs to be PP trained and tested you can bet it's going to follow the same path as the rest of the mastiffs. You can only post pictures in the bio section and it's limited to two I think. They take up too much bandwidth, especially on a busy and full site like this. Next time post links, people will click the link to see them <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Alice, I certainly understand your opinion on my follies <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> If I hadn't experienced this neighborhood first hand I may have agreed with you at one time. What I think is folly is when people let their neighborhood go down the tubes and become a host for parasites of the lowest form. I'm not willing to live amongst that, nor am I willing to move. A careful assessment of the people here showed that when push came to shove, the 'tough' people ran like currs with their tails between their legs. The difference between here and Hells Kitchen is; the people are genuinely tough in HK, and had my husband and I tried what we did here, there, we'd be dead. The farther east you get on LI, the softer the tough people are. What I also think is folly is breeding any guardian breed that isn't up for the task.

Montana sounds nice! Lucky you <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Be careful walking around the back country with an untested dog <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> There are many criminals who will disregard the dog because they know some won't protect. Seen it first hand.

Folks,
Just a reminder that the owner of the site only allows photo's in the "Member's Bio" section of the forum, and only two photo's ( with yourself included in one ) are permitted.
Please review the posting rules!
Posting a link to your photo's that have been put into a photo site is the best way to show off your dogs, of course.

Will Rambeau
Moderator

Barbara wrotew that the boerboel club has forbidden dogs to be PP trained and tested you can bet it's going to follow the same path as the rest of the mastiffs. "

It is already happening.As i wrote before,some boerboels i have met seem to have no guard or defense instinct at all. = /
I think it is mad that the SABT forbids people to test and train pp dogs.If they are right,that the breed has natural guard and protective insitnct,why does not MY dog show it?
Yes some boerboels has it,but i know some that do not.
I also think that it would be good for a breed like the BB to be trained,the dog learns when and how to react.And be calm in nonethreatening situations.
Most accidents with dog bites(i talk about all dogs now) happen by UNTRAINED dogs,or dogs that have been trained the wrong way.

This his what one breeder has written at the homepage:
H/

The guarding instinct of the Boerboel will develop naturally and does NOT need to be stimulated in spite of what any “dog expert” may say.

Do not forget that the Boerboel is one of the last dog breeds that has no problem in recognizing the difference between a guest and an intruder. I speak from experience as visitors are always welcomed warmly by our Boerboels.

However an intruder will be met by a barking, growling dog who will insist he does not move until one of us gets there.

This unexplained behaviour will be confirmed by many Boerboel owners.

helena, i'd like to see your pictures, too. can you post links? sorry about your dog having the hip dysplasia. it is heart-breaking when a good dog has health issues like that. that's why i am so strongly in favor of health testing.

barbara, you wrote:

 Quote:

Be careful walking around the back country with an untested dog There are many criminals who will disregard the dog because they know some won't protect. Seen it first hand.

the fbi at quantico has profiled the violent criminal mind and they are urban creatures. you rarely if ever find one in the outdoors; they are not the outdoorsy type! in fact, they say that statistically speaking, a woman alone in the wilderness is much safer than a woman out there with her husband. why? because domestic violence is the primary violent crime against women.

they also told me that, statistically speaking, you'd have to go to central park every single day for 115 years to be a victim of a crime there. our perception of danger is much higher than the reality. as someone who is myself in the media, consider that the media only reports on violence and crimes against women in the outdoors because they are so rare. if they were common, they wouldn't be news.

i happen to agree with the boerbel club. i want my dog to act on his natural protective instincts, not be trained to attack. and testing for protectiveness could ruin an otherwise good dog.

some dogs are going to have better protective instincts than others. that's just the luck of the draw. i'd rather take that risk than own a loose cannon, which is what i think the breeders who focus on protectiveness tend to produce. it takes a skilled breeder to avoid that problem, and nowhere in dogdom do i see many skilled breeders.

Alice, you make some great points. There's a fine line between nerviness, loose cannons, and natural protectiveness. Only very experienced and knowledgeable people should be breeding.

Where we disagree is on testing. I don't think breeding should be based on luck. The only way to know what you're producing is thru testing. Re: 'attack' or protection training; it gives you more control over the dog if done right. It also allows you to know a dogs propensity, and how it will react in a bad situation. I don't like surprises, especially with a dog that outweighs me. I would not consider my male a loose cannon, but when my neighborhood was in it's height of sleezyiness, he had a habit of going off at things that were understandable, but not legal for him to take a bite. Whether he would have bitten or just knocked someone out of the way, I don't know, I stopped him. In those circumstances he was extremely hard to control and hold back. Had I not brought him through scenarios, I would not have gained the control and reliability I have over him now. The point is in order to train them not to bite, you have to train them when it's acceptable to IMO. If you look at dog trends and breeds that are ruined, you see a pattern of people using the show ring as a proving ground, then you see dogs that are lacking in working qualities.

How can a good dog who is mature be ruined by testing? IMO, the dog wasn't good to begin with and should be eliminated from the gene pool.

We'll just have to agree to disagree because we could probably go round and round with this. Get in your last rebuttal and then I'm going to let this go <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> I knew you wouldn't agree with the testing lol <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> Take care Alice <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Just to clarify about testing; I'm not saying that a dog should pass a level 10 type test, before passing level 1, 2, 3, ... But testing, of some kind to prove workability, stability and nerve is a must for mastiffs IMO. Without testing, probability of weak nerved, fear aggressive dogs being produced is also increased.

And Alice, it wasn't too long ago that I would have agreed with everything you said, till I actually needed a dog <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />