I know the Japanese have a reputation for paying high prices for the top dogs as well as one instance I heard of where they paid the handler to live in Japan for a year and teach them how to handle the dog. Far from the norm though, I doubt Koos paid $80,000 for Nick vom Heiligenbosch and he's one of my all time favorite dogs.

Being very new to shepherds, and studying the breed for a long time, we bought our first addition last Sunday. she is 9.5 weeks old, weighing in at 13.8 lbs as of Monday.
We bought her from a breeder that I felt comfortable with on the phone. I had gotten some advice from members here, and spoken with others about pedigrees, breeders, etc. After we drove almost 2 hours to go see her, I probably should have walked away. I really didn't like what I saw on the premises, (without going into too much detail) and now think that I possibly bought our angel from a back yard breeder. (We did see the Sire and Dam) Info about their pedigrees are at the end of this message. I would love any feedback anyone would be willing to share.
She cost us $1800.00. He told us that she was the "pick" and he was originally asking $2200.00. Either the other buyers couldn't afford her, or they chose another puppy based on what they were looking for in the way of activity level, sex, temperment, etc. He reduced her $$ because he is again breeding her Sire with another Dam in July, and didn't want to have another puppy around at the time. He said that he had thought about keeping her, but chose not to.
I really don't know if I made a mistake or not, but I wanted what I deemed to be "the best of the best" for our family and the puppy. Not intending to breed or show, but wanted the potential for both. All I can say is that she is a Godsend, and we love her already as of the first moment. Well worth every dime IMHO.
Each individual has to decide what their "currency level" is. The analogy that seems to fit is that if I see an item for sale that is 30 or 70% off,or full price, I may or may not buy based on whether (in my opinion) that item holds that particular value for me.
My little Cheyenne however, holds the value of her sale price to me. I am blessed to have this little velcro baby.

Sire:V Waldo v Fichtenschlag, SchH3, FH2, Kkl1, hips "a" fast normal, HDZW 83 Three times SchH3. Best SchH3 scores 100, 90, 90. This qualified him for LGA
Sire: VA (BSZS) Orbit von Tronje, SchH3, Kkl1
Dam: V Unsa vom Fichtenschlag, SchH3, Kkl1
Dam:Isabell von Quendorfer, BH
Sire: VA Quando Sofienwald, SchH3
Dam: V Akora vom Quendorfer, SchH1

Krista, as far as showlines go, you got a showline from some nice lines. I see my Cujo is somewhat closely related to your female too.

As for backyard breeders. Who determines at what point a breeder goes from being a backyard breeder to a professional breeder? Because honestly, alot of the places that are set up as full-time breeders are over-breeding, and the best breeders are often the KNOWLEDGABLE and EXPERIENCED people breeding in their "back yards" with some of the best dogs. When I think backyard breeder I assume the person knows nothing about what they are doing or which dogs they are choosing to breed. Most of the best dogs in Europe are bred in someones home.

Mike. My Fred is a G.Grandson of NICK vom HEILIGENBOSCH, why was this Dog so Famous

Possibly I used the term "backyard breeder" too loosely. I just felt that the Dam was in bad shape. Maybe they all look like that after just weaning a litter 2 weeks ago. She just had clumps of hair all over her and looked as if she needed a really good brushing. REALLY thin too. I also wasn't crazy about the state of the kennels in the yard for his other dogs. Falling tarps on top, etc.
It seemed as if the breeder knew about pedigree lines, etc., and was extremely proud of his dogs. I just thought better care could have been taken of these beautiful dogs.
All I know is that when this little girl came bounding over, plopped on my husband's feet, it was over for us
Just wrote the check then and there....

i feel if you are happy with your puppy then "oh well" most sellers of anything will tell you what you want to hear or try to ecourage you to buy or that you are getting a deal. sounds like the dog is working out ok. as long as it was not any false advertisement going on, i wouldn't worry.

I agree with Mike, "BYB'ers", to me are people who get 2 dogs of the same breed and breed them to make money. No more. No less. Don't know anything really about the breed, and don't care about the pups outcome. From joining the Boxer club, I've met some excellent breeders, who do the breeding in their "back yard". I can see Krista's point too. The more puppies you start churning out, the harder it is to keep the conditions in good shape and the harder it is to give the extra care to the dam. Granted though, having and raising a litter of pups is very hard on the dam and they do tend to look unhealthy in that stage. I've never bred though, that's just what I've heard/seen/read.

Mike, how the heck do you know all these lines so well? Is there a place someone can go online to research all these different lines? I've been doing some research of my own, and after a few pages of reading or looking at different sites, I am exhausted

Steve, I believe Nick was a 3x world champion at the Bundesieger (dont quote me on that, but im pretty sure) and is known for being an intense, hard, very civil but correct-minded dog. On top of that, he is also a very good producer, in that he passes on his traits to his progeny very well.

Look up his name on google, there are videos of him working. He is also not a huge dog, to me he is the ideal size. I think maybe mid to high 70lb range? Don't remember.

Krista, I think females can look pretty bad after they whelped a litter, very skinny. Tufts of hair, well thats poor grooming but I can't say my dogs look perfect all the time The mother of my pups looked horrible while she was in her gaining weight stage after the pups were seperated from her.

Alex, don't know where you would research it, but after a while of being around the right people and reading the right things and seeing enough dogs you can start to piece together which lines are good. You also start to realize there's not that big a gene pool for german shepherds. You will always come back to some of the "big names" when it comes to the west german working lines. I don't have a clue about the Czech lines or "DDR" lines though. As far as Nick goes, even the less impressive Nick grandsons I've seen have very cool traits (to me anyway).

I think it all depends what you feed too , I can't say all females are the same but my female here: http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r77/cadogancna/IMG_1197.jpg
after 6 weeks of whelp looked great and kept good weight and her coat was very nice and during even her first few days after whelp she looked pretty amazing.If you have one female to take care of and feed the absolute raw diet,it has a huge benefit.I think a female fed kibble during whelp and one on raw is night and day in the outcome of the way she'll look and the whole whelping process.Anyway i don't want to get off topic,Alex you should go see as many seminars and trial as you can you will also get to know bloodlines that way and see some progeny of certain studs and females you might hear about.You'll see some dogs from certain lines and think that is what you like ect...Of course you get to see if that particular stud reproduces himself, talk to people ect...But travel if you can and go see lots of Schutzhund events..