Dear Juliana: Have you thought of getting a treadmill? That way after exercising him, and after her rests awhile, you could exercise him again at home. We did this with our cody. We have to be careful and not over exercise him, and we start out very slow, but he really loves it, in fact he jumps up on the treadmill and wants to do it. We don't have the financies to buy a dog treadmill or an expensive human treadmil so we went to Walmart and bought a cheap human treadmill. The fact it is used for just the dogs will probably keep it going for quite a while. Just a thought. What I like about the treadmil is that you can set the pace, going very slowly or picking it up a bit, but you can set the pace and be right there to see how it goes.
I don't know if that would be good for your instance, but it may solve the not having as much time to exercise, and you can do it many differnt times of the day since you don't have to go outside.
I had an agressive dog too, and I know the stress it can bring. Have you thought of starting all over again, and begining with the pack structure dvd?
Let me know how the prozac works, we had thought about using that with our aggressive dog. We never knew what set him off, he could be doing just great, playing, sweet, and then, wacK!!!
We hung in there with our dog until he was 17 years old, but the stress really go to us sometimes, even though we were committed to him. Of course I didn't have the blessing of learning from Ed site back then, how I wished I would have known about it.
God bless you I hope and pray you can overcome this agression with your dog.
God bless you

Since we have decided not to keep Garm I don't think buying large items like that are a good idea. We are focused on trying to find a rescue organization that can help us. Unfortunately, most of the ones that I have talked to do not take aggressive dogs. I understand that a foster home can't be taken up by a dog that is less adoptable than hundreds of others, but it still sucks. I absolutely refuse to drop him off at a shelter where he is likely to get euthanized like "the pound" near our house. They only give dogs 3 days to get adopted and then they kill them! I'm still looking at no-kill shelters and rescue organizations and I asked the vet and the trainer to help, so maybe something will turn up.

I have decided that whatever changes have to be made for Garm now that he has hip dysplasia, taking fetch away can not be one of them. He loves it too much. It is the thing he most loves in life and when we took it from him for just a few days he went into a total depression and stopped wanting to eat. Lately we have been letting Garm play fetch and giving him his pain medication, as well as the vitamins. I decided not to give him the prozac yet, because I want to see if he will be ok without it first. He seems to be doing just fine as long as Vidar isn't in the room. We've been keeping them separate for the past week and Garm has shown no further signs of aggression toward humans. His opinion on Vidar apparently still remains the same. It's puzzling to me that Garm used to love to be with Vidar and now... he hates him. A couple of times when I had to bring Garm past Vidar to get him out the door to his kennel he growled and bristled at Vidar. Vidar just wagged his tail unsurely and cocked his head to one side as though saying, "What's your problem?" Our house is set up so that you have to go through the room Vidar is being kept in to get to the door to the backyard and if my husband isn't home I have no one to hold Vidar aside while I take Garm through. I can't do it the other way around because Garm needs to be in the most used room so that he can get his much needed attention before I must put him out so that I can give Vidar attention without him throwing a fit. Shuffling dogs between rooms is really driving me nuts and I was telling my friend Jaquelin about it over dinner last night.

Jaquelin just lost her dog to old age last year and she has been in the market for another dog. I would NEVER have asked her to take Garm because I would feel really horrible if he didn't work out for her and I know she wants a puppy that she can raise to be exactly the way she wants. However, she has been going into doggie-withdrawal and keeps having friends bring their dogs over so she can play with them and get her fix. Well, after I told her about Garm's problems she at first said that it sounded like he might need to be put down if he is biting people. This saddened me because she and her husband really like Garm and he has always been welcome at their house. When I told her I thought Garm might be ok as long as there was no other dog around to make him jealous, he was on medication and there were no children around, she said maybe we should put him to the test. She volunteered to take him to her house and keep him during the week, bringing him back to me on weekends and just see how he does.

Her house is really the ideal situation for Garm. Her children are grown up and it's just her and her husband living there and Garm loves them both. They have a pool that Garm can do hydrotherapy in and they know how to deal with dominant dogs because they used to have one that they loved very much and did a lot of obedience training for. So, this is the ideal test to see if Garm can be re-homed. If he does well in this situation I am hoping that it will be much easier to find him a home through a rescue organization because I will have proof that he can do well under the right circumstances.

Julianna
First YOU ARE A SAINT. Everyone should take pet ownership as seriously as you. I so hope this temporary situation turns into a permanent home for Garm. Then you could still see him.

The whole thread was so interesting and informative. I am in the middle of reseaching vaccinations and found all the links helpful.

Also my poor pup is on week three of a mystery limp. X rays reveled nothing. I have an appointment Tuesday for a second opinion with an orthopedic specialist. This thread opened my eyes to the possibility of trying Adequin. Something I already have on hand for the horses. I just need to figure dosage.

Anyway I will say a pray for Gram. I hope the end of 2008 finds you expecting a baby and Gram happily settled in his new home. As an owner of a Boxer I have to say Vidar is a real cutie.

All the best.
Thanks for starting this thread.

an update: Thanks for the kind words Michelle. Garm has been staying with Jaquelin for the past two days and she said he has been doing wonderfully. She also said that he is the most well trained dog she has ever seen. That made me feel good to know I've been doing something right. For her, he has been an all around good dog that just has nipping issues that can be explained by his Border Collie nature. He has always nipped playfully when he is excited and he is very excited to be in a new house. She hasn't noticed the weird aggressive behavior yet and maybe it will never turn up because he is the only dog in the house.

Jaquelin said that she has tried touching his paws to see how he would react because I mentioned that he doesn't like having them touched at all. At first he was ok with it, but on another occasion he gave a low growl, which worried her a little. She said she would take it easy with that the first couple of weeks until he trusts her more, but she would like to get him to accept her touching his paws because that would make him much more adoptable. He has never liked us to touch them even though our trainer has had us working with him on this for a while, so I told her she was free to try, but she shouldn't be too upset if he never accepts it.

Jaquelin does not plan to keep Garm permanently. She just went through a very painful experience with her last dog, having to watch it slowly die from old age and having one ailment after another drag him down until she ultimately had to have him put to sleep. Garm already has hip-dysplasia causing arthritis in his right rear leg and he will only get worse in the years to come, so she has made it abundantly clear that she doesn't want to keep Garm for too long. I am shocked that she even wanted to give Garm a trial run at her house.

Anyway, we'll have to see how things go, but if things continue to go this well I don't see any reason why he can't be re-homed with a rescue organization. I'll have proof that he just needs the right family situation.

Oh, and thanks for the compliment on Vidar. He is indeed a real cutie. You'd never guess by looking at him that his mother was a pure bred, papered Golden Retriever! Although the father is unknown, we are pretty certain that the other half of him is Boxer judging by appearances. He also uses his front paws for everything and is a highly playful jumper, which I know are typical Boxer traits.

I have been having a hard time coming to terms with Garm's situation and I decided that I couldn't bare to see him die before his time even if we can't keep him. At the moment we don't have the money for his operation, but we have decided that if we work really hard we can save up the money and pay for what needs to be done in a "Save Garm" fund. Since I'm an artist, I'm planning on taking some extra commissions (some of which I might not take otherwise!) and devoting the proceeds to this fund.

I was told that after having hip replacement surgery Garm should be as good as new and should be restored to full mobility and life span. My vet has not gone over the finer points with me yet and I'm curious to hear from people who have had hip replacement surgery done on their dogs. My vet has only suggested getting the surgery done on his right rear hip because the X-rays showed that he is getting arthritis there and he is obviously having pain there. The left side seems fine right now, although there is always the chance that it could go out later in life. My vet told me that some dogs never need the other side replaced so he may not get approved for surgery on that side until he starts showing pain there. Right now I can't afford to do both anyway, so I'm going to go with the vet's suggestion. I'm interested to hear from someone else who has had this done only on one side. Did the other hip go out sooner or later? Was the dog very active? It would suck to pay so much for one hip to be done only to have the other one need surgery soon after.

From reading stories online I heard that dogs who have had this done were fully restored, but I'm not sure if he would be if he only had one side done. He loved agility training so much and his personality is so well suited for it. It would be wonderful if he could go back to doing what he loves to do. Does anyone know if the surgery really works that well? It seems too good to be true. I also read some stories about working dogs who have had it done and were able to go back to work. Both of Garm's parents were working dogs, so that would be another alternative for him if the surgery really works that well. I know he has the talent for it. I just don't want to send him to someone who wants to do agility training or herding with him and then have them call me back to tell me his other hip went out. Unfortunately the surgery won't make him better with kids, so we still can't keep him, but at least it will be easier to find a home for him and I'll be secure with the knowlege that my boy is going to live a good life.

The vet told me that Garm has to loose some weight before he can be considered for surgery. He's been on a diet recently and has already lost about 5 lbs. in the past 3 weeks. He needs to loose another 10 lbs. but by the time we have the money together to be able to afford the surgery he should be in the right range.

I'm very excited that we are going to be able to do this! Garm has been doing marvelously well at Jacqueline's. She is still lamenting not being able to take him permanently because of her living situation, but she is having a wonderful time fostering him during the week. On weekends when we bring him back to our house, he is very excited to see us, and Vidar, but unfortunately when we actually take the baby gate down and let the dogs interact with one another Vidar still can't seem to stop jumping on Garm and nipping at his heels. I know he doesn't understand what he is doing wrong and he just wants to play. He's a such a good natured dunder-head. Garm seems to be just fine around Vidar as long as there is a baby gate between them. The dogs hang their heads over the gate, sniffing each other and wagging their tails. I know that Garm still loves Vidar. He just can't handle his enthusiasm!

On another note, I recently was accosted by scammers who claimed they wanted Garm. I knew their emails sounded fishy and they all wanted me to ship him without even meeting him, which I would never do. I read up on this scam and I guess it is targeted at getting someone to make a complicated final transaction that results in taking the persons money without taking the animal, or taking the animal and giving it to research facilities. Does anyone know if there is some legal action that can be taken against such criminals? Since I didn't buy into the scam (or even reply to the emails) I'm not sure that I have any legal recourse or can technically prove anything. It makes me so upset and I want them to be punished! But who can I complain to?

My friend had her dog have hip replacement and he did very well, he is older but can go for short walks, and with a ramp can get back into thier truck. He doesn't have a much pain anymore, and is only affected if he does too much. But remember her dog is older, I believe he is 10.

I hope everything works out for you.
Love,

The only additionally comment I have, or question really, is why haven't you kept the dogs separated long before now? Not a judgment call, I'm just confused. Your posts all describe many instances that Vidar gets picked on and sometimes tormented by Garm. Why has Garm been allowed to treat Vidar this way?

Crates are a great thing for two dogs that can't seem to be tolerant of each other (or in this case, Garm is not tolerant of Vidar). So if Garm is in pain, or jealous or whatever, the reason doesn't really matter, Vidar won't be subjected to Garm's bullying and, therefore, feels safe and is stress free in his own home. And you have one less thing to worry about.

The reason that Vidar and Garm were not separated before is because I didn't feel they needed it until now. From the get go they enjoyed each others company and I didn't have much problems with them as long as they were indoors. It was only outdoors that I had problems. In the early days when Vidar was still the new dog and our routine hadn't yet been completely established, they would start play fighting roughly when I let them outside together, which would escalate to Garm getting serious. In time I realize this could be easily handled by simply not allowing them to play outside together without supervision and everything was fine. Not perfect, but tolerable. We never "allowed" Garm to bully Vidar. Nor did we ever allow Vidar to pester Garm. It would happen and we would correct them for it. Sometimes just correcting them would work. When it didn't work, we separated them.

As for crates, I do use them. I just don't like using them during the day time if I don't have to. My dogs are used to sleeping in them at night, but I don't want them to have to be confined to their boxes all day while I need to get work done. The dogs do so much better when they are just not in the same house together. Both dogs have been behaving better since we've made the change. It is a shame that Garm can't stay here, but it is also good for me psychologically because it is helping me come to terms with the fact that I can't keep him.

Another reason I like the dog sharing situation is because Jacqueline has been getting really attached to Garm and Garm is starting to respect her and her husband the way he respects us. She said she would keep him if we can't find another home for him somewhere else in another year when her commuting situation changes. That means that Garm has a home no matter what and it might in fact be with the foster parents he has been staying with, so it is good that he is getting used to their house. I'm going to keep trying to find another home for him, because I know that Jacqueline really wants to get a little puppy to raise and I don't want to pressure her into taking Garm and giving up that dream, but I won't stop her if she wants to take him in the end. It really would be nice if he lived so close by and I could come visit him.

Anyway, I hope that answers your question.

 Quote: Sharon Empson

Let me know how the prozac works, we had thought about using that with our aggressive dog.

I just wanted to let you know we stopped using the prozac after only a week of Garm being at Jacqueline's house and he got the pain killers. His aggression had stopped completely and the vet told me it probably wasn't because of the prozac because it doesn't kick in until it has been used for 4-6 weeks. She said that prozac is one of those kind of drugs that needs to build up the chemicals in the brain, so it takes time. Since I was seeing immediate results, my dog trainer/behaviorist suggested that he didn't really need it and that medication was not really a good way to correct behavior permanently. It's more of a band-aid that hides the real problem. I'm sure there is some truth to that, but I also know that even some humans need medication to live happy healthy lives. I decided that I would just see what Garm was like just taking pain killers and being the only dog in the house first and then I might decide to use the prozac later if the aggressive behavior resurfaces.

Garm came back to our house about a month ago since Jacqueline still really wants to get a puppy and I think she also wants a small sized dog that can travel with her on her commute. He has been doing really well since his return, although he did pick up some bad habit's while in his foster home (he has developed an interest in the items we leave on counter tops and tables that he never had before!) but I think it was otherwise a good experience for him. It's obvious that he does much better when he is the only dog in a home.

We kept looking for another permanent home for him this last month, through shelters and Craigslist, but were unable to find a good match. In the mean time we have been monitoring him in a confined area of our house with the help of baby gates. He is kept away from Vidar and is given plenty of attention and exercise. The improvement is astounding. I decided that maybe a new home isn't necessary. Maybe we just need to change our family dynamic a little just as some of the people on Leerburg have suggested. One thing is for certain, the baby gates need to come down because I keep tripping over them and hurting myself!

I thought about the suggestion of keeping Garm as an outdoor dog. Would he really be so unhappy? I don't know. If he was taken out and played with regularly and got time with the family, maybe he could learn to adjust. I decided that trying it couldn't hurt. With all the training we have put into this dog, it would be a shame to give up on him too easily.

Our plan is to fence off half of the yard and build a pleasant outside environment especially for Garm where he will stay when he is not being exercised and spending time with us. He will have shade and a kiddy swimming pool to play in when it is hot and a warm dog house to sleep in. When the weather is bad he can be crated in the house. He will have to adjust to being an outside dog while Vidar will retain his in house status. In this way Garm will be kept seperate from the object of his jealousy. And when it is time for us to have a kid the child will be taught that the dog behind the fence is not as friendly as the dog in the house and should only be approached when adults are present and able to monitor the interaction. Hopefully, in this way we can avoid any problems. If anyone else has ideas on how to keep Garm happy, but still separate from the main house, then let me know. I'm always open to suggestions.

We are going to save up money to get Garm the surgery he needs and in the mean time he seems to be doing pretty well with his pain meds.

This plan seems full proof except for the possibility that Garm may not be happy as a strictly outside dog. Only time will tell. If it turns out he is unhappy and we happen to find a better living situation for him elsewhere, I won't hesitate to do the right thing. One thing is certain though, I do not feel that he needs to be put to sleep. I would rather keep him in the backyard, unhappy or not, than to put him to sleep unnecessarily.

Thanks to everyone who gave me advice and I'll keep everyone updated on how Garm handles living outside. I think I'm going to open another thread for that though because this one is really long and it's getting off topic, isn't it?