You're right, Michael.

Also, I have been wrapped up in my view of technical fault. But there were two owners devastated here, and a dog killed.

I am hoping (and expecting, from her posts) that the O.P., at least, is taking immediate steps not to be the owner of an uncontrolled dog again, fault notwithstanding.

Well, I don't necessarily think anybody was far off in their thinking of "fault". There are so many little intricacies that everybody here is probably a little right.

It almost seemed like the same "little dog logic", that allows tiny dogs to be idiots since they are small, was being reversed and applied to this situation in some ways.

And Randy's question is one that stumps me when I think about it. When is it time to retaliate for an attack? What if the dog is still well in its yard, but is coming on fast with bad intentions? What do you do? Does it really have bad intentions or is it all show? Is the dog capable of really inflicting damage? How much force do you use to counter?

I could go on for days. Devil's advocate could make some pretty good points any way you twist this situation.

 Quote: connie sutherland

I am hoping (and expecting, from her posts) that the O.P., at least, is taking immediate steps not to be the owner of an uncontrolled dog again, fault notwithstanding.

The lack of "buts" in her post tells me that all the advice was sinking in.

I didn't see any defensiveness on her part like some. Actually, I think she said "thank you" to even some of the stronger comments.

Good, eye opening thread.

Thanks Mike; your perspective and thoughts are always appreciated and generally spot-on... (and this one is no exception)

Another detail guys.
How many people here have a dog they could expect to ignore a threat coming up and closing fast from behind without the dog reacting on their own?
It doesn't really matter the size of the threat.
Even to the point of being bitten on a hind quarter?

If the op has some weight to bear in this saga, it is the sin of not giving herself a chance to control the situation by simply turning around to face the other dog.
It is not her fault the other dog was loose and out of control. The dead dogs owner had been asked in previous encounters to keep the dog contained.
So why all this heavy on the op for a simple oversight of a repeating tiresome chore of correcting or thwarting someone else's dogs behavior?

Good points.

The size of the threat does matter to me, in that I'd be in front of my dogs if the menace was not life-and-limb-threatening to me. However, that is certainly NOT something I would ever demand of anyone else, so I'm setting that aside.

The OP's dog was bitten? I completely missed that.

I think most of the ruckus here has been around the "uncontrolled" thing. I don't want my dogs to decide on attack-or-not.

 Quote: randy allen

... How many people here have a dog they could expect to ignore a threat coming up and closing fast from behind without the dog reacting on their own?
It doesn't really matter the size of the threat.
Even to the point of being bitten on a hind quarter?

I'm not sure that I can count on my dogs to ignore a threat zooming up from behind, now that you ask. Not on his own. In fact, I imagine each one on his own would react the way the O.P.'s dog did. Why would he not? However, I think that I have good enough control that I can override my dogs' automatic reaction.

Or at least, I thought that until you said "bitten on the hindquarter." Two things might happen then. One might be that I would lose voice control of my dog. The other might be that I would relinquish control of my dog and drop the leash.

It's complicated, though. More than I first thought.

But control of my dogs is very important to me. Maybe I overestimate the control I think I have.

No Connie, sorry for my poor language skills.
I didn't mean to say or imply the op's dog was bitten.
I only meant that from the dogs perspective; it has a threat coming from behind he can clearly hear. And how long could one expect their 'in control dog' to maintain it's composure without turning to face the threat of their own volition. Even to the point of being bitten?

I hope that is clearer.

Toadally clear.

This is a good forum. I am basing that on this: Sometimes the threads are so thoughtful that they make an opinionated person like me reconsider my POV.

I'm not saying my POV gets changed a lot (it has happened, though), but it has often been challenged in my own mind via this board.

I had a GSD that I adopted at 1 1/2 years old. I didn't know too much about him and his behavior until I had a few surprises. One was when he was inside the house, I opened the door to a neighbor and a stray dog happened to be following her up to the door. My dog ran out of my house, picked up a shook the little dog. The dog was fine, but that dog was ALWAYS roaming and I think ended up hit by a car. After that day if the owner didn't care enough to contain the dog, I wasn't sure what my responsibility would be since it often would charge us on our walks. This was over ten years ago.

After that, I had other runs ins with loose dogs and my tension on the leash added to his need to feel in charge and I'm sure created some aggression that hadn't always been there. Did I know about dropping the leash back then? No, and I have since learned a lot on this topic.

I can walk my dogs, they are fine unless charged. I just wish loose dogs weren't something I had to worry (in my own yard OR on a walk).