Quote: Will Rambeau

 Quote: Joe Waddington

Cyclist forum talking about same thing.


http://www.twospoke.com/forum/f27/how-do-you-ward-off-dogs-1664/

Wow...the amount of mis-information on that thread is *stunning*.
No wonder the OP tried this forum for info, too bad about his intial comments here, which turned off many posters and greatly decreased the help he *could* have gotten.
Of course, he has only himself to blame for that......

And as another note, some of the "suggestions" offered on that thread in the bike forum are felonies.
Idiots!

There's an easy, simple solution for this issue:
Air horn in your water bottle cage. Been there, done that, worked every time I've needed it

A confident, no nonsense attitude is usually all I need to handle a situation if I'm not riding at a speed to out run a problem dog (I'm a mountain biker). As in don't put your hands up, but demand with your words & body language that it "GETONOUTOFHERE" If that's not enough & I don't have my air horn (only carry that on road rides), I have also picked my bike up & threatened a dog with it with great success ... completely took the dog off guard.

When walking my dogs, I carry a carbon fiber golf club shaft. Works great for a threat display & as a whip if I'm pressed... no use for biking, of course.

Connie, yes I mean dogs off their leashes. At the park I am talking about, dog owners sometimes take a lot of liberties even though the sign says animals must remain on a leash. I understand wanting to let the animals play and run around. A lot of people manage that without their dog holding someone up. On other trails I frequent, most dog walkers have thick leashes and are usually at least polite, maybe offering a wave or moving over for bikes on trails marked BIKE and built by bike clubs.
On any trail, when I see a dog, I try to evaluate the situation, usually just keeping the pace and riding by with a wave, or dinging a bell and slowing up till the walker can move to a good spot. The bikes are usually off-road models, but getting off the dirt channel at speed usually results in thorn flats or crashes with low brush. Most dogs react well to the ding bell and act neutral, but some pull at their leashes if brakes squeal a little or they are "hyper".

I have thought about carrying a whistle or something to help alert dog walkers at the more remote trail, but I don't know what to do. I am concerned that a "strange" noise to them might bring a dog toward me when that is the thing I want to avoid.

I said earlier that I folow news as it relates to dogs striking people, and have noted the effectiveness of firearms on aggressive dogs as seen in videos of police and security cameras, and have witnessed a dog shot at a gun range because it approached a man and his family. It did not heed warnings, and lunged a couple of times, snarling. We were hoping it would be picked up by AC and it hadn't acted so before, but when it threatened him repeatedly, it was shot in the head with a centerfire rifle. It was hit effectively, and the dog continued growling and "running" as it expired.

I live in North Texas in a semi rural area near a suburb, and bicycle for leisure and transportation, esp in the warmer months or when my vehicle is in for repairs. Sorry I was less than clear.

http://www.thewisdomjournal.com/Blog/wp-includes/images/gasprices.jpg

Cycling has some dangers, true, but not all people can afford cars or to drive them all the time, and some people get pleasure and social activity from cycling. Also, for some strange reason America has a lot of bumpkins that ride bicycles carelessly or against traffic. I report them to police as drunk drivers. I prefer off-road cycling, and take less-trafficked roads when possible, if road cycling. That makes for less trouble with cagers (drivers who feel they have the right to run over a cyclist who is using a road lane), but more trouble with dogs (many that are not contained at all, and some that jump fences). If you have a dog that is conditioned to ignore cyclists and stay put, congratulations, but most the dogs here are owned by casual owners and a few thugs.

re: CJ Barrett.

You are right about opportunistic criminals, and it relates to the rest of my life as a weapons holder and a skinny, young-looking guy that often travels alone. I do not want to be a target for any opportunistic criminals, including unscrupulous dog owners.

My hatred of dogs is conscious and reasonable. There are plenty of dogs that don't chase cyclists, don't leap over fences, and don't corral people, and don't "naturally" terrorize pedestrians and cyclists. They may not be natural creatures, though, but I sympathize more with them than the problem dogs.

I don't like being told that I have to purify my soul and seek solace with the dog gods to avoid bad karma or whatever. If I understand what you are saying, dogs are predatory creatures (true), and the only way to win them over or ward them off is to be more successful or more daunting predator.

It is hard to "find a deep inner calm" when facing something that can fracture bones at will and might have an inclination to even eat what it bites off.

http://sadpanda.us/images/767468-646H1VL.jpg

photo of woman who made the dogsbite website, after a dog broke her arm. That is not my blog, but I support it because it shows the epidemic of dog-violence against humans in USA.

re: "Know your "enemies". Understand what makes them tick and how to defeat them.... Yes, people who have dogs who endanger me or other road users are enemies, and I would rather they were not, but I am at quite a disadvantage. How can I approach someone who is so anti-social that they have a dog at large? Doing so (going to their house or sending police their way) puts me even more in harms way, with the dog there and a likely armed and territorial person who doesn't like being corrected about his dogs, esp if he will receive a fine or lose a dog.

Also you can see it on this forum thread even, the hostility to cyclists who are legitimate road users, traveling the correct direction, and not in people's yard or driveway but on roads where a driver can just pass and go on. Most cyclists are car drivers too, and many of them are dog owners (probably much more casual dog owners though).

I think cyclists have much more a road right than dogs, but what is it without major political domination and police sympathy to back it up?


"Know your "enemies". Understand what makes them tick and how to defeat them. Don't hate them (trust me, they don't hate you). It's simply an encounter for them as it should be to you. What do you do in these encounters. Each dog is going to be just a little different. What will remain the same is you, your knowledge base and how to deal with it.

***Your goal is to walk away unscathed. Not frustrated, not mad, not scared and certainly not bitten. Confidence in your ability to handle dogs wisely and controlling your emotions will get you a lot further in these situations than any target practice.

Michael, I ramble and I could go on forever in all kinds of directions but its late and Im going to stop now.

I just wanted to add though that I think your advocacy is to be commended. I think you could do both the dog and bike world a lot of good. Bottom line, as I'm sure you've heard loud and clear is that it's not the dogs you need to be talking to (most don't understand anyway), it's the people that should be controlling those dogs.

If you want to direct that anger at something, please let it be the irresponsible owners, not the animals who, believe it or not, are really just as innocent in this as you are.

I'm glad you're here."

 Quote: Michael Taylor

.....On any trail, when I see a dog, I try to evaluate the situation, usually just keeping the pace and riding by with a wave, or dinging a bell and slowing up till the walker can move to a good spot. The bikes are usually off-road models, but getting off the dirt channel at speed usually results in thorn flats or crashes with low brush. Most dogs react well to the ding bell and act neutral, but some pull at their leashes if brakes squeal a little or they are "hyper".

I have thought about carrying a whistle or something to help alert dog walkers at the more remote trail, but I don't know what to do. I am concerned that a "strange" noise to them might bring a dog toward me when that is the thing I want to avoid.

I know I'm coming very late to this thread, but I would like to address this particular issue. Michael, if you encounter me on a trail, I will move off the trail, snug my dog up close to me on the leash and put him in a sit or down, if I know you are approaching.

I walk at a lot of parks in my area that have multi-use trails. I also ride a bike occasionally. I think mutual respect is key here. I often have bicyclists approaching me from behind, and I do not hear them coming. They give no warning whatsoever, and especially if they are on a road bike, their approach is pretty quiet.

Ninety percent of all bicyclists that pass me from behind give me no warning whatsoever. All you need to give me a warning is your voice (although bells or horns are fine, too). As you approach, simply say in a loud voice, "Bike approaching," or, "Passing on your left," or even, "Get the hell out of my way, here I come." What you say doesn't matter, but it does give me fair warning and I will give you the right of way because it is easier for me to go off the side of the trail with my dog than it is for a bicyclist.

I oftentimes am startled, but that's just me. I startle easily. I would rather be startled than have my dog get run over because we didn't know you were coming and he darted into your path to sniff something or whatever.

If you pass me on the trail and you do give me a warning, you will always hear a respectful "Thank you for the warning!" from me.

There are dog owners who are malicious, territorial, etc. I have known some insecure people who wanted a big dog for protection, though totally ignorant of how to train a protection dog. So it's no surprise that the dogs end up vicious and dangerous.

These people are the enemies of us responsible dog owners as well as cyclists and runners and walking enthusiasts. Just like irresponsible gun users endanger the gun rights of everyone, this kind of dog owner is a threat to dogs and owners in general.

So I sympathize with Michael, certainly dogs can be a menace. Most people who let their dogs run loose are just ignorant and lazy, not malicious at all.

But from my own experience with dogs, horses, and other animals including people, they all can sense fear and insecurity. I have had an aggressive horse cue off my state of mind, until I consciously changed it. And for sure dangerous human beings sense the person with a victim mentality. I have been around humans that made the hair on the back of my neck stand up, and learned to change my state of mind around them also.

Michael, I know you don't know this .... just a heads-up that aside from small sig pics, limited photos in the "intro/bio" section are the only ones allowed to be embedded in the post. Links to photos are what we encourage. I fixed yours.

Thanks!

For some reason I have noticed that dogs don't bother me much when I am alone...but with my dutchie, I swear he's a hate magnet. He's very dominant towards other dogs (well people too). With him I don't allow this behavior. The reason I say this is, if you project yourself with hostility, dogs pick up on it. You are not conscious of doing it...so yes, sorry but you will fare better if you change the way your view dogs...hate the owners they suck. :-P

You don't have to hate them to defend yourself against them. I love them but have kicked the shit out of a few that charged my dog...even pitbulls respected my voice or the foot. Dog even make negotiation signals to get past other dogs...speaking of there is a book: Canine Body Language-A Photographic Guide by Brenda Aloff

I bike-jor with my dog and worry about the same thing. Some are best avoided but sometimes I simply dismount my bike and say...you know, you aren't screwing with us, get lost. I can negotiate my passage by, sometimes its giving space...sometimes its owning it. I understand the frustration, I have been attacked before. Stupid owners suck.