Thanks for your wonderful post Fred.... I love to see your comparisons of dogs from varried fields of work. Wow..10 call offs in a row and a re-direct. I hope you keep on typing and letting us all in on your magic. No wonder you shouldn't be around police dogs. You own postings and lack of usage, drives, motivations, temperament and the knowledge of the dogs themselves comes shining through. Please stick to messing up dogs who don't need to save someones life. Perhaps in your next post you can stop advertising and answer direct questions as they have been asked of you over and over again. No one here give a ^%$@ how many vans you have. How many trainers work for you. How you "demo" all your work in the street for the world to see. Stick with pets and even the sport dogs, but spare us all a funeral and a family grief as you have NO right "selling" yourself to the police world!

Josh Lewis writes: Stick with pets and even the sport dogs, but spare us all a funeral and a family grief as you have NO right "selling" yourself to the police world!


Fred Hassen: Hi Josh, never have gotten to meet you either but thought I'd reset the record. In both cases with police departments.....Sgt Lewis of the Tucson Police was invited to a function at a private seminar. He was not invited by me, but was invited by the person putting on the seminar along with alot of vets, and other folk. Sgt. Lewis told me that he hoped that I didn't mind, but he would only be able to stay for a few minutes because they had been using collars for a long time. I told him that I understood. Not only did he stay more than 15 minutes the first day, but he stayed the entire day, and came back the next day and brought two of his handlers, and some people from the humane society. They stayed that day as well. Afterwards, Sgt. Lewis asked me to speak at their fall conference. I explained to Sgt. Lewis a number of times that I am not a police officer, and he said that he didn't need me to teach him to be a police officer. Sgt. Lewis realized that they would use the collars as they see fit, and would apply it to the individual situations. There were about 60 departments at the conference, and anyone there knows that Sgt. Lewis made it EXPLICITLY clear that I told him that I am not a police officer, and told the group as well. They need to apply things as they see fit. Afterwards, Sgt. Lewis invited me down to work with his unit. He had seen me twice by this time. The chief of police in Austell Ga. asked me down for a seminar. He called me. I again informed him that I was not a police officer, and also told the 6 different Ga. departments that were in attendance. They are smart enough to use things as they see fit. When police officers or any other group of people give a seminar on anything......the officers are obviously smart enough to use what they like, or not what they don't like. They don't all like everything the same, and dislike everything the same. Some use the collar for everything now, and some use it for a few things. Sgt. Lewis still keeps in touch, and is doing a demo with some people from his unit at a seminar that I will be giving in Tucson in about a month. Chief Starrett is planning a visit to come to Las Vegas to learn more. Some of the others call occasionally asking things. I don't tell anyone to put a seminar on for me........they ask. My advice to you Josh, is to tell them that I had nothing to offer.
Hope that clears up the matter, and I'm not going to bicker with you on this. Those are the facts....bottom line. All of those departments are now using collars for their units. Nothing more....nothing less. Take from that as you will.


Fred Hassen
http://www.fredhassen.com

Fred,

What you do with your superdogs is very interesting. Do you use stimulation to send them away, and then stimulate to stop? You stated that you use methods similar to those used to train gun dogs, and if so this is in line with their exercises.

Regards

Donn Yarnall

Originally posted by Richard Cannon:
. . . I have watched Fred and several others work their dogs with e-collars at some NAPD trials . . . it doesn't require so hard of a correction that the dog yelps evey time it is corrected.


Richard,

Were the dogs Fred was training/handling yelping each time they were corrected?

Donn Yarnall writes: Fred,
What you do with your superdogs is very interesting. Do you use stimulation to send them away, and then stimulate to stop? You stated that you use methods similar to those used to train gun dogs, and if so this is in line with their exercises.

Regards

Donn Yarnall


Fred Hassen: Mr. Yarnall....I am a bit confused, you are doing a lot of ranting about what I do for someone that has never seen me work. Why are you giving all of your opinions on my work, and now bothering to ask what I do?? I wouldn't just go ask someone "what does Donn Yarnall do?" and find that as a fair opinion of your ability, and what you teach. I'm sure you understand that by the vast number of handlers that you have had over the years. Feel free to continue with your comments about my training though, and feel free to bring your birddogs out to show your understanding of what the bird people do. I comprehend people's understandings of things by watching them. That and that alone, tells me everything that I need to know.

Fred Hassen writes: << I wouldn't just go ask someone "what does Donn Yarnall do?" and find that as a fair opinion of your ability, and what you teach. >>

But, Mr. Yarnall is NOT asking 'just someone' "what does Fred Hassen do?", he is asking Fred Hassen himself.

No offense, Mr. Hassen, with what I am about to say and I am NOT trying to be rude or disrespectful -- it's just to give you some feedback on the impression you are making with your posts on someone who doesn't know you or any of the other "combatants" <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> on this thread -- from someone who is just plain frustrated trying to figure out what the heck you are saying. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> but assuming whatever you are saying must have SOME meaning.

I get the impression from your responses to direct questions (from your last post for sure) that you do not answer direct questions about what you do perhaps because you may not *know* what you do. If you know what you do, then why not just ANSWER the damn question??? Or at the very least ignore the damn question???

where people are much more educated on levels with collars, and understand that things are relative.

Until this comment I have just been lurking. What an ass Fred! A blanket insult when you don't even have a clue who your audience is!!?? Now you're just down right irritating.

Ellen writes: But, Mr. Yarnall is NOT asking 'just someone' "what does Fred Hassen do?", he is asking Fred Hassen himself.


Fred Hassen: Hi Ellen. Mr. Yarnall has made various comments from my training creates "Robotic Dogs", to other comments regarding the attitude of the dogs. My point was just that Mr.Yarnall has never seen my dogs working in bitework, nor has he observed my training with anyone in that context. I have not knocked Mr. Yarnall's system, and I have actually said it is best to observe different programs. I have seen many problems with people using low levels, but I am educated enough to know that is probably alot deeper than just the level. I have seen dogs do better when levels are raised, and when they are lowered. I am not into "high" or "low".......I believe it's relative to the situation. I don't label anything til I see where it needs to be. I certainly wouldn't see a low level problem where it needed to be raised, and attribute those problems to Donn Yarnall because that is what he does. He is free to say what he wishes though. He's attributing any thing negative that may happen with a higher level to me, and he has labeled me as a 'high level' trainer, and the accompanying problems. That's fine though.......my point was just that since he already knows and understands everything about what I do without seeing it, and is willing to put it in print.........he really need not ask any questions. I haven't asked him questions, but they would come from me seeing what he does, and then asking them at that time to give him a chance to tell me what he's seeing, and make my opinions from there. Sounds to me like he's already got me, and bird dog training already figured out, and I just commented that his showing his knowledge with the collar in those aspects, would give me a better idea of what his knowledge would be, rather than stating something over the internet. That's not a bad thing you know. Anyway....I'm sorry if I didn't clarify that more in my previous post.

Thanks.

Fred Hassen http://www.fredhassen.com

Ken,

I don't remember specificly if Maddy or the Lab were yipping. I saw a lot of dogs that day e-collared and not. There were 5-6 pits there all e-collard and I remember several of them yipping. I was busy with a lot of things at the time. There were several other breeds with e-collars on several of them were yipping too.

The thing that struck me the most was the attitude of the dogs with and without the e-collar on. As soon as the e-collar went on the eyes locked on the handler and the dogs looked "worried", for lack of a better term. When the collars were off the dogs paid more attention to their surroundings and what was going on. They were still obedient, but the demeanor was completely different. It was a profound enough difference that it bothered me. I may have read to much into it, but the slip/prong collar trained dogs did not have the same type of profound behavior difference with/with out the training collar on.

Kevin Sheldahl writes: "where people are much more educated on levels with collars, and understand that things are relative."
Until this comment I have just been lurking. What an ass Fred! A blanket insult when you don't even have a clue who your audience is!!?? Now you're just down right irritating.


Fred Hassen: Hi Kevin. A few comments on this. First of all there are numerous posts on this thread. I should say.....VERY numerous posts. I do see at the beginning of this board that there are quite a few people on the list that is available to come here. I can only read from what is posted. The reason that I bring up the birddog people and their knowledge, is that if you go to just about any high end bird dog bulletin board, it is pretty much common knowledge that Labradors don't fall apart on 3's, 4's, and 5's. It's so understandable, and so elementary, that they'd laugh if you say anything else. Now I don't know what all the quiet people are thinking, because I'm not a mind reader. All you see on this Ecollar thread is basically that the poor little bite crazy, "my dog goes through anything" Mal is going to totally lose it's spirit if you don't stay "Low level" no matter what. I'm just responding to what I read, and have stated my opinions on levels being relative.
Remember now, these comments are coming from police officers, and I certainly was not trying to offend anyone by stating the opposite. For what it's worth......those are still my opinions and I stick to them. If the acceptable thing on this board is to mention 'low-level' training.....then thank you, and I needed someone to point that out. Enough on the subject for me.

Fred Hassen http://www.fredhassen.com