Excellent response on your side.

I don't think I would have done anything different.

Did either one show and 'give' when re introduced?

"A dust-up every now and then is just one of the possible outcomes of having dogs with strong personalities. Probably was a long time in the coming, and may prove to be beneficial in the long run."

I also agree with this comment........but I don't think I would advise it for the "average' dog owner.

I've only had two super serious trouble makers in my time with dogs.

A 60 lb mutt that could pass for a working Lab and a JRT that was a real nut case.

I had the Mutt's litter mate and dad dad had the mom. Mom looked like a collie marked hound and the sister looked like a smooth coated Collie. Go figure!

Both were very controllable with my other dogs but the JRT could get himself in a jam around most any dog. Not just your "average" goofy JRT.

Good afternoon Bob.

When they were reintroduced they acted as I would have expected them to. No dominance issues or posturing. Normal and equal sniffs and behavior. Pretty much they are conditioned to my lack of enthusiasm for posturing, etc. I expect them to act as though the alpha is in the room, and will tolerate no attitude stuff.

I added icing on the cake by my icy demeanor, and short, sharp commands. I'm still acting a bit aloof, and that seems to trouble them more than anything else.

And any positive attention one gets, the other must be proximate and receive simultaneous positive recognition. They are equal, period!

Notwithstanding the staples, they seem none the worse for wear or the experience. Sam, the 84 lb. male, got taken to the woodshed by the Titan, the older and 98 lb. male. Sam mistook easy going for pushover, and paid a price for his arrogance. The two males are on the deck with out any attitude obvious.

Still, a jaundiced eye observes the interaction.

Sounds like you back to normal but don't hang on to the "icy demeanor" to long or they'll start wonder what's wrong with you.

In the dogs' mind yesterday is long passed.

Good morning Bob,

"Icy" phased out yesterday. Their behavior is back within the boundaries I expect.

Found a staple on the rug by my feet. Apparently Sam didn't want it in his leg anymore. Surprised he didn't ingest it.

Over the years I've come to appreciate the role demeanor can play in working with a dog. Exaggerated emotion can underline training and general behavior expectations. Abundant praise v emphasized disappointment sparingly used. Probably not well described.

Anyway, the mutts are arrayed around me, resting with their appetites more or less sated.

The take away from the Saturday dust up is stuff can go wrong when you are not tuned in to body language, or if you assume nothing can go wrong. Situational awareness and constant vigilance are essential tools. And assume really does.

 Quote: Mike Arnold

but the separation was the decision of my bride and daughter.

I think I understand that not only was the separation made by your bride, but that is who you are referring to when Titan and Sam got into it. I also have to be careful about leaving certain members of my pack alone with my husband! I pay way more attention to posturing and subtle glances between my intact male GSDs. And even my almost 2yoa female pup now bears watching...I've caught her stiffening at my dominant female.

 Quote: Mike Arnold

A dust-up every now and then is just one of the possible outcomes of having dogs with strong personalities. Probably was a long time in the coming, and may prove to be beneficial in the long run.

I agree with you 100% Dogs are living beasties, and as such fall under the "if anything can go wrong, it will" philosophy! I had a most wonderful, tolerant, but dominate male GSD who suffered an obnoxious, antagonistic, three-legged collie rescue. Until he wouldn't! Then he quickly showed him his place, I had to patch him up (nine lives...just sayin) and the collie would try it the next day if allowed... go figure.
I would like to add, that after reading the full post, I admire your persistence in helping the ones you can!

 Quote: Bob Scott

Excellent response on your side.

I don't think I would have done anything different.

Did either one show and 'give' when re introduced?

"A dust-up every now and then is just one of the possible outcomes of having dogs with strong personalities. Probably was a long time in the coming, and may prove to be beneficial in the long run."

I also agree with this comment........but I don't think I would advise it for the "average' dog owner.

I've only had two super serious trouble makers in my time with dogs.

A 60 lb mutt that could pass for a working Lab and a JRT that was a real nut case.

I had the Mutt's litter mate and dad dad had the mom. Mom looked like a collie marked hound and the sister looked like a smooth coated Collie. Go figure!

Both were very controllable with my other dogs but the JRT could get himself in a jam around most any dog. Not just your "average" goofy JRT.

I will AGREE that most Pet owners are definitely NOT equal to a "Cesar Millan" natural type -- Mike Arnold and a few others here are certainly up to the task of managing Multiple Dog communal packs, BUT ... IMHO, it is worth pointing out that this Fight did NOT break out while Mike was at HOME, but rather while his wife & their daughter were "in charge" (just personally speaking, I would no longer leave Sam & Titan loose together when only the Ladies of the House are there to manage them, but that's just me)

Good afternoon Candi,

Yeah, the dust up happened when I wasn't home but it could have as easily have occurred when I was home. This kind of stuff can happen when there are a couple of purposeful mutts in the house.

My daughter, the cop, is well able to control the dogs, probably as a result of her experience with the the constancy of dogs in the house from the time she could toddle. But she wasn't home either.

Then too, the bride has been working with dogs even before we got married, some 40+ years ago. I figure together we have worked on finding homes for about 30+ rescues, not including the ones we kept.

In many ways, the bride and my children, are suited with better dispositions than I to handle the dogs. I'm big and imposing, I'm told, and offer perhaps more of a presence when I bellow. Ordinarily, the bride has but to state the command Stop, and all stops. I know I stop and pay attention.

As I type, the two males are down on either side of my feet. In a little while the bride will be arriving home, and there will be the cacophony of dogs excited to be first to greet her. And, yes, there is an acceptable behavior set.

I'm grateful the bride didn't get into the middle of the fray because, clearly, the dogs were not listening to the Stop command, and I think I would have had to go medieval on their butts to break their focus. As it was, they tired themselves out. And the bride was uninjured. And they were repairable.

Ordinarily I too would recommend the separation of dogs after such interaction, when the supposed Alpha is away but in this case, I think the bride would ignore my recommendation with a disdainful dismissal. And I would acknowledge same with a well and often used 'yes dear.'

The dogs just changed places. It is what it is.

 Quote: Mike Arnold

Good afternoon Candi,

Yeah, the dust up happened when I wasn't home but it could have as easily have occurred when I was home. This kind of stuff can happen when there are a couple of purposeful mutts in the house.

My daughter, the cop, is well able to control the dogs, probably as a result of her experience with the the constancy of dogs in the house from the time she could toddle. But she wasn't home either.

Then too, the bride has been working with dogs even before we got married, some 40+ years ago. I figure together we have worked on finding homes for about 30+ rescues, not including the ones we kept.

In many ways, the bride and my children, are suited with better dispositions than I to handle the dogs. I'm big and imposing, I'm told, and offer perhaps more of a presence when I bellow. Ordinarily, the bride has but to state the command Stop, and all stops. I know I stop and pay attention.

As I type, the two males are down on either side of my feet. In a little while the bride will be arriving home, and there will be the cacophony of dogs excited to be first to greet her. And, yes, there is an acceptable behavior set.

I'm grateful the bride didn't get into the middle of the fray because, clearly, the dogs were not listening to the Stop command, and I think I would have had to go medieval on their butts to break their focus. As it was, they tired themselves out. And the bride was uninjured. And they were repairable.

Ordinarily I too would recommend the separation of dogs after such interaction, when the supposed Alpha is away but in this case, I think the bride would ignore my recommendation with a disdainful dismissal. And I would acknowledge same with a well and often used 'yes dear.'

The dogs just changed places. It is what it is.

Mike, thank you for the Clarifications

I didn't make my caveat very clear, so sorry -- Was just meaning to say what I would do commensurate with my own limited handling abilities, NOT at all what you & yours should do ... My cautionary statement concerned "ordinary Pet owners" who incorrectly imagine they are capable of controlling a Communal K9 Pack with the same level of expertise as someone who has experience like that of a "Cesar Millan" type of dog handler.

Within the Akita Fancy, of which I was a member for over a decade, you would NOT BELIEVE how many Clueless Newbie owners brought Blood-Baths on their dogs AND themselves through foolish Mishandling inside the home -- Once any two Akitas have come to blows, they will NEVER FORGIVE each other, and then their household must be managed as a "Gated Community" for the DURATION Of course, not all canines are "grudge-holders" like the Akita is, but more than one breed leans in that direction when it comes to Dog-Aggro, especially & particularly in the hands of inept owners ... Clearly, no one in Your Family falls into that category by a long-shot, LOL.

Well, just to give in a word. I'm not at all an experienced dog owne and I cannot contribute much to your topic. but I know about Newbies (from myself) and I know abouy oldbies (does a word like this exist?), who have never learned to leave their somehow blocked pathes. I'm fascinated about your dog story and I wish you from all my heart best luck. I am also an "ordinary pet owner", but this doesn't mean we can't learn, provided we want. Wish you all good luck! You're actually interested and this means you'll succeed.

Sam gets his staples out today. In a few hours, in fact.

The atmosphere has been peaceful, no apparent lull before another storm. Of course the latitude of my attitude has been narrowed.

A cautionary tale. Always alert, always wary, always anticipating. Take nothing for granted. Doesn't mean a heavy hand, or not trusting, rather just being aware of what could go wrong in a situation, and controlling in advance.

I had the two males, Titan and Sam, outside yesterday in another kind of stress test. Playing with both of them, alternate fetch, sit and wait, long downs, etc. No unnecessary attitude or unwanted behavior. While a good outcome, no guarantee of future interactions. Still, fun for man and dogs alike,

But the day is young.