I am for the thyroid panel first, before anything else. The Tufts link is a great link and I have first hand experience with a dog who became a Jeckle and Hyde due to thyroid. He didn't present a typical hypothyroid case and no one thought of it. Just a hunch, a niggling in my mind and then the Tufts research of handler aggressive dogs pushed me to have him tested. And he was indeed hypothyroidic. By that time his thyroid was almost 'dead'. It took awhile to get him back to his normal self, but he is my calm boy now and no aggression. Do that at least.

Two, a stranger correcting your dog shouldn't expect forgiveness and perkiness and a hey! i think your great! attitude from the dog. Ridiculous.

I am not going to try to convince you to keep the dog alive. I do think you need to decide how you are going to feel about the dog. You can't hate him and work with him. You can't blame him and work with him. You CAN take responsibility for mistakes and set them straight so you can set this guy up to win. NOW, having said that, only you can decide what to do. And, your decision will need to be concrete and without prejudice to the dog. You need to know for sure, that the best thing for him is euthanasia. If you have any waffling or doubts, then you don't euthanize him.

I have a little dog I am working with right now that I thought 'wow! I made a mistake in taking this on!' She may always be dangerous to others when she is stressed, so I don't allow too many people to touch her. I also watch what I do, and try to figure out what I may have done to set off a defense. And, believe me, there is a difference between her display : snapping the air in an arc around her, and going into her target with determination.

Learn his signs. He is sending you his signals. Think about them. Try to remember your stance, your hands, your head tilt, your stare. And, try to remember all of his. It will help protect you and him.

Doug: you are in a very tough situation and you are getting conflicting advice, which must be very upsetting and confusing. I have never been in your shoes but I think it must be extremely hard.

Iam going to throw my two cents in and say i fervently agree with the last two posts (Sheila and Jo). This means that I think, that if I were you (and I have no experience I'm just theorizing) I would do EVERYTHING I possibly could before deciding to end the dog's life.

THere are still things you can do: this could still be a physical problem so a complete physical is in order (ESPECIALLY thyroid, and while you're at it bloodwork - you never know, he could have something else going on - tumour, etc).

Get the advice of more than one trainer. If you are in New York you should be able to find some. I agree with Sheila, I don't know this trainer but his opinions don't jive with me. I have a dog who is extremely fearful and aggressive toward strangers and I am 110% sure he has never been abused or hit. He was frightened ONCE by a rude person and that was it. Just because a dog has a problem does not automatically mean it was abused. Especially since, from what I gather, Jake has just started this new behaviour since being boarded; he did NOT come to you like this. Maybe something happened at the boarding kennel.

And I would not expect any of my dogs to forgive or even go near a perfect stranger who had just corrected them. This makes no sense to me.

So - physical workup. Find a new trainer, get 3rd and even 4th opinions. I'll PM you a suggestion.

I agree with the others. You should give Jake every chance before making the ultimate decision starting with a full medical work up. Also look for a trainer who can give you concrete advice on how to handle the dog and work with him. There's nothing a trainer can do that you can't with proper guidance and mindset. Personally I'd beware of any trainer who says they can do something that I can't. It isn't rocket science. It just takes the conviction that you are doing it for Jake's benefit and a well thought out behavior mod plan.

I've been where you are. Every summer it seems Molly comes down with a skin infection. The vet puts her on Prednisone which severely affects her temperament. She goes from a happy friendly dog to slinking around the house like she is suspicious of everyone and even a pat on the head will make her snap. When it first happened I considered having her PTS until we realized it was the meds.

In your case you mention that Jake has some food guarding issues. Resource guarding can progress from food to other resources like a bed. I would at least give that some consideration before deciding to have Jake put down. A resource guarder should never be allowed on furniture. Floor, grass and crate pan are the only place a resource guarder should be allowed.

I also second the suggestion of NILF. This is excellent for resource guarders. The dog eventually learns that it owns NOTHING. Everything good comes from you and the dog has to work to get it. It might also help to work on your attitude around Jake. If you are suspicious of him then he will pick up on that. Any previous relationship with him will be changed and Jake will be empowered by your fear. Only deal with him when you are calm and focused. If you need more confidence then get a muzzle. He might be bothered with it at first but dogs can learn to wear a muzzle the same as they can learn to wear a collar or leash.

NILIF is super easy to implement and quickly becomes habit, doing that in conjunction with the pack structure exercises would be an easy way to re establish your relationship with Jake.

I also agree with the using a muzzle to give you more piece of mind if you do decide to try working this out with him.

Doug, where in NY are you? I am also in NY. Shoot me an email and I will direct you to a trainer that I think may be able to help you. abndogos@yahoo.com

Maureen

Doug,

I've got an idea.

I think that one of the experienced folks who are advising you to keep this dog should step up and take him off your hands. They can resolve his severe aggression and then find him a new home. Easy enough, right?

That way you and your friends and neighbors are out of danger and the trainer gets the opportunity to walk the talk.

If anyone volunteers, I'll pay the dog's transportation (within reason).

I just cruised thru all the posts, suggest returning the dog to the rescue with a detailed explanation of why and with pics and let them make the hard choice. Not every dog can be saved and this one either has a lot of baggage or isn't wired correctly. There are a lot of other dogs on death row with much better potential than this poor dog. I had to deal with "Max" a fear aggressive GSD and if he would of shown any aggression to me or the rest of the family I would of PTS him asap. Life is too short and the liability is too much. If he has little compunction against biting you, a stranger or other family member haven't a chance

 Quote: Margaret Wheeler

Doug,

I've got an idea.

I think that one of the experienced folks who are advising you to keep this dog should step up and take him off your hands. They can resolve his severe aggression and then find him a new home. Easy enough, right?

I don't think anyone said Doug was in an easy situation; quite the contrary. He has to live with the decision. I think the confirmation that the problem is genetic; if all medical possibilities are ruled out will help the decision sit lighter on his shoulders. Also, in these tough economic times one of the finest animal behavior centers is looking for volunteers and willing to pay for the cost of testing. And as long as the volunteer finds a cooperative vet in his area does not have to travel to participate.

Its not my decision but would you recommend euthanizing without a full medical work up? Any breeder worth their weight stresses the importance of an immediate Vet check though their pups have been checked out by their own vet. That check up is a protection for the new owner, the breeder and the puppy. Should it be any different for a rescue dog?

The link below includes more details from Tufts and their research into aggression.

http://www.k9aggression.com/Aggression-Treatment/medical_issues.html

 Quote: Sheila Buckley

Its not my decision but would you recommend euthanizing without a full medical work up?

It's a tough question. In the case of this dog who is an immediate danger to it's owner absolutely. Not every dog owner is ready to keep a dog that can go off on them in this way, not everyone has the resources to long term board a dog who has these kinds of temperament issues (most boarding places won't take a dog like this), and no dog owner should live in fear of their dog. No shelter would give this dog 5 minutes of kennel time.

Euthanizing is the right thing to do for everyone's safety. It's what I would do if I was in his shoes with the resources he has outlined.

I once fostered a dog for over a year who was terribly abused before I got him, he was drug behind a truck or car, burned with cigarettes, and a mess physically and psychologically. Fear biting had become a learned response and we tried for so long to help him. Finally I saw him one day nearly go ballistic on someone for opening a cabinet door which happened to tap him. I had him PTS the next day. Sometimes you just do the best you can, but the reality of the situation is there. Not every dog can or should be saved, this dog has had its chance at a normal life.

Hi Sheila,

Euthanizing a dog that could potentially recover and become a friendly companion seems like a tragic injustice to me too, but I choose to put that concern aside in the face of what I think are very serious risks to Doug and his friends and neighbors (not to mention the other dog dog he fosters).

I believe that a novice handler who lives in a small apartment in a densely populated city should not continue to keep a dog that has attacked him repeatedly, period. Add to that the fact that at least two experienced trainers have been attacked by the dog, that he failed his temperament test at the rescue and that Doug is still fostering another large breed dog, and I can say with confidence that I would want Jake out of Doug's apartment regardless of any results of any tests of any kind.

Doug works from his apartment; his neighbors are complaining about Jake's barking in the kennel. I have to ask myself, how would I feel if Doug couldn't earn his living or if he got evicted, or worse if this dog hurt Doug or someone else even more seriously than he has already? To me, it's not particularly farfetched to imagine that a dog displaying this level of aggression could end up killing someone. When I consider these realities, I can't in good conscience encourage Doug to keep Jake one minute more.

Finally, Dennis makes a really important point:

 Quote:

There are a lot of other dogs on death row with much better potential than this poor dog.

Doug has demonstrated an immense willingness to do his best by the dogs in his care. He has great potential to be come a highly capable owner and handler. Vis a vis Dennis' point, it seems to me that he would be much better off working with a dog that needed his help but which wasn't a danger to the animals and people it lived with.

Last, I am very concerned with regard to the choices made by the rescues that placed Jake and the other foster dog. Why would you place a puppy that fails a temperament test with a novice owner? Why would you place a second a young male large breed foster in a home where another large young male resides? Bottom line: Again, in agreement with Mr. Jones I think the ultimate responibility for this situation belongs to the groups who placed these dogs with Doug.