Thanks for the responses. My questions about "look at that" have been cleared up.

I guess my only remaining question re this is how long to leave him in his crate...I hate the thought of crating him all day except for exercise or when I am outside. Today I let him out in the yard by himself (it is raining here) so he could get a little exercise and "relieve" himself and the cattle were all at the back fence. I stood inside the house without him seeing me and he walked up to them, looked at them and then turned away and walked back toward the house.

Also, I do train him outside on our porch bec he is not distracted when I am outside with him. He completely gives me his attention even when my little kids walk out in the middle of our training sessions. I do this in stages like I described in an earlier post, but it is all done outside.

And you're marker training?

Can this venue (porch) be changed up?

Then can distraction be introduced very gradually? Can you move the action, say, closer and closer to chickens or safe cows (remaining outside reactive zone)?

Is he safe and unable to get to farm animals (and vice versa) when let outside?

Can he and the donkey be completely separated?

Do you play with him? Tongue-hanging-out exercise?

 Quote: connie sutherland

We've learned in the course of the thread that no, his ob is not perfect (or even close) and that he basically has none under distraction (like many dogs!).

His ob is very good and even under distraction. He will do anything I tell him. Ex. last night we took him for a walk around some beagles that ran to the edge of their yard and were barking at him. He was looking at them, but staying with me, and I decided to give him some commands...he did them with ease and full attention on me.

Remember me writing about the cow that he startled himself with the other night? As soon as he started to lunge at her, I told him to sit...he did and then I called him to me...he came. He was on a 20 foot long line, but I never had any pressure on it during this.

He has been trained in progression from no distraction to a lot of distractions. The only time he has not listened to me was when he was chasing the donkey. I did have a few issues in Fl with other dogs and him pulling me and him snapping at other people, but he ALWAYS listened to me - not with full attention, but he always did what I told him to do.

The main reason for this whole thread was to help with "socializing" him with other dogs and people.

Re-define how you think of socialized. It just means he has to behave, not that he has to have contact.

 Quote: connie sutherland

And you're marker training?

Using a clicker, no, but using "yes", yes. Like in the first ob video by Ed Frawley.

 Quote: connie sutherland

Can this venue (porch) be changed up?

I work with him first on the porch, then on the deck, then with the kids on the deck with us, then in the yard by ourselves, then with the kids sitting in the yard, then with the kids playing in the yard, then with the animals close to the fence (I move his training to the fence where the animals are lying, grazing, standing...) and now in the midst of the cattle and mini-horses.

 Quote: connie sutherland

Is he safe and unable to get to farm animals (and vice versa) when let outside?

In the yard, yes, but outside the yard, no.

 Quote: connie sutherland

Can he and the donkey be completely separated?

Not at this time, but she doesn't always stay in the lower fields...I haven't even seen her in almost a week...she has been in the upper fields.

 Quote: connie sutherland

Do you play with him? Tongue-hanging-out exercise?

Yes, many times a day.

"The main reason for this whole thread was to help with "socializing" him with other dogs and people. "

I know. And I and others have pointed out that socializing happens by building on calm behavior around those other people and dogs, but outside his trigger zone.

A dog whose "ob is very good even under distraction" is not a problem around people. He does not "bite everyone who comes to the house." He isn't jumping up on the woman on the vacation trip.

A dog whose ob is very good even under distraction is doing what you tell him to do. He has fallback behavior that you have trained until it's bulletproof and that you can command, 100% reliably.

And he has learned this behavior gradually by practicing ob under gradually increasing distraction.

 Quote: steve strom

Re-define how you think of socialized. It just means he has to behave, not that he has to have contact.

I want to be able to take him places with me. I don't want to have to worry about him going after other animals or showing aggression towards people outside his immediate family.

 Quote: Connie Sutherland

A dog whose ob is very good and even under distraction is doing what you tell him to do. He has fallback behavior that you have trained until it's bulletproof and that you can command, 100% reliably.

But remember, I am the one who didn't think of giving a counter command when he is acting in a way he shouldn't. I have started doing that and he is responding wonderfully to it.

 Quote: theresa rutherford

 Quote: steve strom

Re-define how you think of socialized. It just means he has to behave, not that he has to have contact.

I want to be able to take him places with me. I don't want to have to worry about him going after other animals or showing aggression towards people outside his immediate family.

IMO, you cannot do this in isolation.

IMO, you can work on his ob and at least have fallback commands for some dicey situations.

But IMO if he cannot actually be socialized (desensitized to his triggers), then there is no way I know to "take him places without worrying about him showing aggression."

 Quote: Theresa Rutherford

 Quote: Connie Sutherland

A dog whose ob is very good and even under distraction is doing what you tell him to do. He has fallback behavior that you have trained until it's bulletproof and that you can command, 100% reliably.

But remember, I am the one who didn't think of giving a counter command when he is acting in a way he shouldn't. I have started doing that and he is responding wonderfully to it.

You are right! Absolutely right!

And this is a BIG part of the equation!

But the other big part is his gradual desensitizing to the people and animals that he is reacting to.