I find this topic somewhat strange,surely the aim is to train the dog with the least use of force,using levels of 4 and 5 is in my opinion punishment training.
I currently work four Rotts very easily on levels 1 and 2 without any loss of control and certainly no adverse effect from the dog feeling it is being punished and having read a lot of mails on this and other lists,it seems that this low level working is the aim of all working dog trainers,the high levels are then still available for an emergency situation should it arise.
As for the Mal falling down under high levels,perhaps it has the brains to realise that it does not have to be this high and you are not training but punishing it and a punished dog will never be a good working dog.
One further point is that it is the use of high levels that is causing the banning of Ecollars in so many countries,the do gooders see the dog cry out and the problems start.
I was recently approached by an animal activist whilst using a collar and told that it was a cruel punishment tool,when I demonstrated the effect on both myself and him,he went away with a totally different attitude to Ecollars.He would not have at high level.
Ed Frawley Administrator Reg: 07-11-2001
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I am going to close this topic. It's time to move on.
I will put my two cents in here. I have serious serious serious concerns with civilians who have never been law enforcement officers training police service dogs. I don't care if its training with e-collars or housebreaking.
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