<---- is getting ready for VanCamps "I have a dream" speech. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

oh, wait, that speech is more geared to Richards outlook <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Yes - it would be nice if the AKC and CKC recognized the working dogs somehow but I don't think it will ever happen. A friend of mine
entered her two working line Siberian Huskies in the sled dog class at a Siberian speciality.
The judge excused the dogs from the ring as being
the only dogs that would be unable to pull a sled.
These were dogs that have both raced competitively. The judge was from California
where I guess they have TONS of experience with sled dogs LOL.

Originally posted by tiggy2:
Yes - it would be nice if the AKC and CKC recognized the working dogs somehow but I don't think it will ever happen. Tiggy, the CKC in a strange way sort of does support working dogs. They now recognize the Sch Titles and have for several years. If I am correct I believe that came about as a result of a Canadian by the name of Syd Murray. I cut my teeth with working dogs due to meeting Mr. Murry.

Another aspect of the CKC and the attempt by the CKC to become alligned with the concept of working dogs is that several years ago the CKC did make application to the FCI to be moved from a Kennel Club in Co Operation with the FCI to full member status.

This application was submitted at a world congress many years ago in South America. The request was turned down at the time due to the CKC and the then existing policy in regard to working dogs and the CKC did indicate that they would return and re apply.

They have not as yet done so but change is forth coming but in a very slow fashion.

This much I can tell you about some of the fringe policy aspects.

The CKC own the magazine Dogs in Canada which is the single largest Canadian publication about dogs.

Yes the mag is almost exclusive to Show Dogs but the editors of this magazine over the years have always gone out of their way to publish in a good light any articles that I have written about working events that include Ringsport, Campagne, Dog Racing and Police Dogs.

At one time Dogs in Canada Magazine also organized the performers for the Canadian National Sportsman Show. I believe it was at one of the Sportsman Shows the Caniche saw myself and Axel promoting Ringsport on Stage.

So in all fairness to the CKC, they in their own way are trying albeit very slow to enter the mainstream of the FCI concept but are twarted by old British Views on Dog Clubs.

Jerry Cudahy

Schnauzergirl,

I long ago gave up on the GSD for show and work. However to blame the AKC is not going to help. The delegate to the AKC and the club that sets the standards for the GSD in the AKC is GSDCA. They are also responsible for the education of judges for what is proper for conformation. That said here is quote from the GSDCA illistrated standard for the GSD:

Topline: The withers are higher than and sloping into the level back. The back is straight, very strongly developed without sag or roach, and relatively short.

And for the rear:

Hindquarters – The whole assembly of thigh, viewed from the side, is broad, with both upper and lower thigh well muscled, forming as nearly as possible a right angle. The upper thigh bone parallels the shoulder blade while the lower thigh bone parallels the upper arm. The metatarsus (the unit between the hock joint and the foot) is short, strong, and tightly articulated. The dewclaws, if any, should be removed from the hind legs.

I see no recomendation for the over angulation currently seen in the ASS. The drawing of the "Ideal" GSD looks nothing like the standard conformation dog. Check it out:

http://www.gsdca.org/Noframes/standard/IllStan1.htm

Ok... I'm confused. How is upper thigh parallel to the shoulder? And lower thigh parallel to the upper arm? It seems that it all depends on the position of the rear legs.

Ok... I think I underestand. It seems that much depends on the POSITION of the rear legs. Is rear leg position specified / or standardized?

Dave,

The position of the rear is based on the positions of the front in a proper stance, not the other way around. There are some involved diagrams on the site. I have never seen a more detailed standard in my life. The bottom line is well illistrated by the drawings, and they don't demonstrate the over angulation seen in the ring today. The dog in the drawings looks pretty good to me.

Dog looks pretty good to me also, very much like the GSDs of the 1920s-1960. If you look at pictures of the winners in both Germany and here in America you will see that dog. And get this, ALL of them also had working titles up through the late 50s or more. It was about that time that titles were begining to be omitted from the entrance names. At that time also you see more diversity between the dogs in the shows, a greater range was allowed for in the judging.

Great link Richard. I was trying to be funny earlier, don't take me personally. The site doesn't depict anything that looks like an ASS to me either.

Not to switch breeds here but there is a large variance in the UDC dobermans versus the AKC dobermans. While working doberman people will argue that those dogs can't work, I still think the UDC is at least trying to accomodate the breeds inital purpose along with a good looking dog.