Kinda the same question as Tony--what age is suggested before you start corrections for obediance work on a Schutzhund dog?

I'm not worried about general behavior--he's leashed if he's not in his crate or outside so we've had no problems whatsoever with chewing, housebreaking, etc.

sammy--could you elaborate on why you do "no" Ob at this age? and when do you start?

and, what kind of conflict, and why (perhaps you'll answer this above), OB in young pups creates conflict in dogs perhaps destined for bitework in the future.

i'm really interested in this because my future pup will be (hopefully) doing bitework, and fairly serious work at that.
thanks!

There are two schools here. I know a lot of people that don't do obedience until 1 year to 18 months. The others do the obedience right away. Both are right, cause it is their style. Then I should mention the ones that look at the puppy, and decide based on the dog.

If you have a dog that is way over the top, my thing is to start the Ob right away, you are going to need to tip the scales in your favor early. If your dog is not that drivey, then for me, I do some OB, but "lazy man style" (like I do anything different than the norm <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

I always try to judge what I have in front of me before getting too carried away. With the less drivey dogs, I don't try to get everything perfect. Too much OB with this kind of dog will have them looking to you, instead of the decoy. I basically want manners. Later with these dogs you can do OB for bites, and tighten it up.

As far as having a 4 month old that you want to correct, weeeeellllll, welcome to the club. I always feel that way about the little butts at that age. I use the infamous "avoidance" training method during this time. I "avoid" doing much of anything, and if I do, it is for a very short time, multiple times during the day. If they are on my last nerve, then I "avoid" completely, put on a cup, and just go out and let them run it off. I can fix it later. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I agree with Jeff you definitely have to look at each dog and decide what’s best for him/her. I do think that you should be able to do OB at a young age with a quality pup. My dog goes into drive after just a few commands, and I firmly believe it's because I've done a ton of drive work and worked OB in drive since I got him at 8 months. I think that if given the proper foundation of working in drive that following Ed's Drive-Compulsion-Drive theory of training you should be able to start adding compulsion in training with most between 6 and 8 months, and I've seen a few that can take a correction as young as 4 months. I follow the rule that you should never give a dog so hard of a correction that you can't quickly bring them back into drive. I feel that OB is the foundation for everything that you do with a dog.

sooooo...correct me here when necessary. first, for pups with the potential/goal of bitework--train just enough to get basic manners (motivationally). also, from 12 wks thru the "teenager" phase at 7-10 mo (?), are you saying to just keep up the minimal OB?

i'm SUCH a beginner, it's not even funny. but i read about imprinting OB, tracking, etc. then hear, no, don't train OB if you want bitework later.... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

i know, i know--i'll get some books/dvd's BEFORE i get the pup. plus, i'll check with you'all before i get the pup. how's THAT for CYA?? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

Here is something to figure out first. What high, middle, low drive look like. Lots of people have a different definition.

Once you have this figured out, sorta <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> then you will know what you have when it comes home.

This OB now or later is personal preference. How much/intense you do the work is determined by the puppy.

Here is the easy way. Go get a MONSTER drive puppy and then you don't have to worry, you can start it all right away. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

 Quote:

As far as having a 4 month old that you want to correct, weeeeellllll, welcome to the club. I always feel that way about the little butts at that age.

*lol* That's how I felt about Aussie (though he was 8 mths when I got him). Siris is actually a very well behaved puppy. The only time I'm wishing he's old enough for a pop is when I need to get everybody out and pottied when I need to leave for work in about 3 minutes. I was mostly curious if he was ready for the next stage of OB training, but obviously 4 mths is a little young.

While he's definitely not a low drive dog, I can't say if he'd be considered a high or medium drive dog--he's finally decided the ball on a string is more interesting than my pants, that's all I know ^_^

Jeff, what would you consider "way over the top"?

You kinda have to see it. My girlfriend thought she had a high drive pup, then I gave her Turk, a pup out of a litter I bred. She saw the difference. My dogs father "Ludo" (Kain ot vitosha) is right about there, I haven't "seen" too many others. Over the top doesn't show up as much as I would like to see, and I feel the standards on drive need to be raised some. Maybe someone else can chime in, or at least throw a video. I am working on making a video to help my attrocious handling skills, maybe I can get Ludo on there. Of course I will never figure how to get it here................ <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Ah. That kind of dog.

For the video, I upload on sharkle.com and post a link. Just FYI. ^_^