I'm thinking of adding another dog to the family. Aside from it being a family pet, my plan had been to also take it with me on Boy Scout hikes (I'm a BSA Scoutmaster) and my volunteer state park work (I'm in SAR and have also done "trail patrols"). Needless to say, that means this dog would encounter a lot of kids, particularly teens. I just got Ed's updated basic obedience tape (more than just a training DVD - it's like a whole seminar), and it has given me second thoughts. I'd never looked at "stranger contacts" (strangers petting dog, etc.), for lack of a more concise term, as a particular problem for behaviorally sound dogs. Ed makes it pretty clear that stranger contacts shouldn't be encouraged. Does this put the skids to my plan, or am I misinterpreting his guidance? How do therapy dog handlers, etc., reckon with this? I noted that, in searching the archives, there didn't seem to be many references to therapy dog training or other circumstances in which dogs and stranger-kids would have to routinely interact. Thanks!

Lots of guardian breed enthusiasts & protection dog trainers here, who (for good purpose-specific reasons) do not allow their dogs to be petted by the public -- So if you want to select, raise & train a stranger-friendly K9, maybe you should find a website with a dedicated Therapy Dog discussion board (?)

With that said, you will not only want a "loves everyone" breed just for starters, but you will also want to evaluate both the pup's parents (especially its dam) for stranger friendliness -- And if you don't already have a good puppy temperament test on hand, you can find an excellent one that Guide Dog folks use in the late Richard A. Wolters' books, "City Dog" and/or "Family Dog" (Wolters' estate has also published a video version of "Family Dog" that's great for laymen & novice owners)...

OK, I'm now "putting on my full helper's padding" just in case I get mobbed by other posters <:-O

Have you seen this video?

http://www.leerburg.com/120.htm

It covers socializing pups to people.

I forget which video it is, but one of Ed's videos (maybe Raising a Working Puppy, I forget - anyone?) demonstrates his sons Corgi (I think it's a Corgi), be basically explains that this dog needs to be absolutely 100% social and friendly with everyone because it's his sons dog and all his friends play with the dog too. I think it was his son.. boy, I'm not doing too good on details today am I? But you get the point... from what I understood, even Ed understands the need to socialize the heck out of a friendly dog that is going to have contact with lots of children for situations like you describe.

http://www.leerburg.com/puppytest2.htm

It's a little bit different from the one in Richard Wolters' books & video, but pretty similar...

One thing: I'd temperament test the litter on their 49th day of life, exactly, but not @ 8 weeks of age (because, if memory serves, 8 wks is one of the "easily frightened" stages in a young dog's development?) -- Wolters' books, which can be found in most libraries, also cover all those life-stages in detail...

Cool. I can appreciate why working-dog handlers would want to keep a hands-off approach with strangers. Back when I was a police dog handler, I had some colleagues who had dogs that were just fast enough and just unpredictable enough around small kids (who can do a lot to stimulate a bite) that the handlers weren't comfortable with public appearances where their dogs would be mobbed by kids.

I figured that, after watching the basic obedience tape, I had overlooked something, somewhere, in Ed's portfolio of training DVDs that "bridged" the gap between socialization & encouraging no stranger interaction. Sure enough, the URLs you sent should cover it.

"Maybe the wrong website" has something of a point. Problem is, I've looked at other sites. Ed's philosophy fits me. I wasn't a police dog handler for a long time, but it was long enough to know that no lasting good could come through the "corrections are evil" school of dog training. The "no correction" concept has swamped most message boards. It takes entirely too long to winnow the few grains from the bushels of "chaff" on the other boards, too. You can't gauge the knowledge/experience of other posters. Here, I figure that Ed sort of rides herd on the place. If someone gives advice that's too whacked out, Ed will step in.

In short, I'm a lot more comfortable around here. Good folks. I'd like to stick around so long as no one minds. Thanks!

The trainers at my obedience club who work with therapy dogs (raise their own & do evals for other folks) are NOT part of the "positive only people" hordes, but they don't have a website, unfortunately -- I discovered Leerburg when I got my Akita (not a breed you want to mess up with!) and now I send all my internet dog-owner friends HERE <:-)

However, I'm too much of a newbie on this site to have read any posts from knowledgeable regulars (yet...) who DO train expressly for stranger-affectionate dogs -- But maybe your thread will bring some of them out of the woodwork (?)

I own companion animals, including a 20 mo working lines GSD. I socialized him with children by sitting outside a playground for about 15 minutes every day when he was a pup. Parents were willing to let their kids say hello, as he was small, and I had no trouble getting the kids to be gentle. I did this simply to ensure I had a dog I could trust around small children, as my older dog is very unfriendly to children. I also walked my youngest daughter to middle school with him every morning, and some of those pre-teens gently pet him. This worked well for me, but the dog is naturally very even tempered and accepting, if not fawning. One thing you may have to work on is training the dog not to bark at people as they approach you in the woods along the trail. I have backpacked with several dogs over the years, and some have tended to "guard" the trail.

I've noticed the barking or alerting to backpackers, from dogs that were reasonably socialized. Dogs that didn't get keyed up on pedestrians at home suddenly became more suspicious of hikers. I wondered if it had something to do with hikers and backpackers being "shaped" differently (big packs on backs, etc.) or smelling differently (the Appalachian Trail thru-hikers here seem to cultivate a profoundly strong "funk" that even humans can smell for 25-50 yrds.

It could partially be the pack, but I have had it happen when we came upon people resting at a stream without packs. Perhaps the dogs are simply not expecting other people. I assume training a down stay would do the trick, but I would start it young.