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I'd like to hear from some of our K9 handlers on who's producing police dogs. I think it's hard to judge a stud's production until you see a couple generations and find him in the 3rd or 4th generation.

Police K9 is a little different when it comes to pedigrees. 90% of handlers don’t care about pedigrees at all….and it’s just a bonus to the other 10%. To us it’s more about the dog’s ability to do the work. Remember, in 99% of K9 programs we start off with dogs that are anywhere from 12 months old to 24 months old. We aren’t starting off with puppies and taking the gambles that a lot of competition people are taking.

That said, the last dog we purchased and two others that REALY impressed me had some Yoshi Döllenwiese in the woodpile. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Yoschy did a great job in producing working dogs in his lineage.
The '99 WPO Ch. in Augsburg was a Yoschy son and there were soemthing like 12 others in the civilian side of things.
He did throw a bunch of monorchid dogs though...but I haven't had a bad guy check for that particular trait yet <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
I am a fan of dogs that do not often include Fero linebreeding von bosen nachbarschaft and Dollenweis stuff is ok but not a bunch of linebreeding on fero.. From the stand point of searching for available 2-3 year old dogs LINEBREEDING of Fero produces a large number of dogs that have environmental problems (here is where sport people hate me since sometimes the thin nerves that cause this problem make for a flashy performance).
For police work dogs that are bred though Mink show some really good play/prey characterisitcs and hunting drives.
Makes them a bit of a pain for many sport people at times though and grip and be an issue in some.
The biggest thing that pedigree does is to let the experienced law enforcement trainerstart the process of weeding out the garbage and anticipate some possible health issues. Some lines just seldom produce good stuff for police work so why bother even looking.
I've had a number of nice dogs w/ a showing of dogs from Fasanerie in the pedigree in the last couple of years.
I had a few dogs from Gildo Korbelbach i really liked also.
I also like to see Karthago represented as well in the dogs pedigree.
Personally i have done very well w/ dogs coming down off of Nats vom Arolzer Holz...very serious dogs but not often seen.

Just some ideas.

From what I have seen I also like Canto vom Haus Endrikat. Very nice dog. Never competed at the higher levels because he likes to fight for real. I have a dog out of him now from a canto and Bambi Fasanerie.(Yoschy Grandson) The entire litter is doing fantastic. Canto has over 170 pups on the ground. Could not ask for a better dog.

You know i am kinda surprised. All these dog names comming out and so far i have not seen 1 PS dog or a Jinopo dog. Are these bloodlines becomming over powered by other dogs? I mean i know PS is no longer breeding but even the dogs that have been talked about on here as some of the best out right now doesnt have PS in them.

I have a wonderful CZ dog. He's produced well with dogs that I have had an oportunity to breed him with and especially w/ Mink lines.
But, I have to paraphrase the owner of Peko Haus kennels. "How do you know what to breed him to??". This has always been the issue w/ CZ dogs. How well do they compliment the Geman dogs? Do they? I see very little of them brought into the German dogs, occasionally but not often. Hips tend to be an issue w/ many.
I had bought a bunch of CZ dogs a few years past, and still once in a while now. But, they are pretty picked over as far as available young adults and a lot I saw were poor in temperment and or poor in health.
I remember when the DDR dogs were all the rage. Out of them maybe Robby Glockeneck (sp) has made an impression in the breed in the long run and that's about it...once in a while Donn Rolandsdich (but only due to a huge head, bone and pigment, not great working abilities) can be found in the pedigrees that exist today.
I think you will see much the same w/ the CZ dogs. One or two very nice animals making waves into the future but that is it.

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You know i am kinda surprised. All these dog names comming out and so far i have not seen 1 PS dog or a Jinopo dog. Are these bloodlines becomming over powered by other dogs? I mean i know PS is no longer breeding but even the dogs that have been talked about on here as some of the best out right now doesnt have PS in them.

Do you see this comming the norm from here on out, a few dogs here and there producing great dogs? Do you think the days of, "oh this is the kennel to get top notch dogs from" are gone?

What dog that is the "top producing male" are impossible to answear, depends on what standard someone have when judging what is good and not, the female also very imortant. Many countries have good dogs that aren´t wellknown outside their country that produces good dogs suited for police or sport. That germans often doesn´t use czech dogs in their breedings are probably that it´s hard to follow up the lines and get a good documenation of the dogs in the czech lines regarding health and temperament.

Same thing here in Sweden, it´s much easier to use wellknown native workinglines where the history of the dogs in the pedigree are easier to follow up/get info about, instead of using dogs from other countries.

If strong dogs for police/military/security are what
someone looking for, then a good start is to look for dogs that have worked in that field with good reputation, or civilian competitiondogs with genetic strong character, and avoid breeding with the succesfull championships-dogs , that may be good, but often gets many breedings because their high placings or famous owner, and not because they produce stronger/healthier dogs than other more unknown dogs.

In Sweden some of the good producers of policedogs/security are these dogs that you find in many pedigrees,
http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/pedigree/126352.html
A securitydog with a very strong character that comes from a litter with several famous servicedogs and good producers.

A very good policedog that have been used a lot is this one,
http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/pedigree/121740.html

Finally, a good producer of very stable dogs, worked extra as police/security-dog but also a succesfull dog in civlian trials.
http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/pedigree/132983.html

So in short, there are many good producing dogs around the world, but many peoople are just familiar with the ones that
have made a name of themself in BSP/WUSV-championship. And yes, some kennels are still on a higher level when it comes to producing good workingdogs compared to others, easy to see if you can find documention on what they have produced during the years.

The best way to breed dogs is by knowing and training with the ones you use.
This demands a local focus.
It also precludes chasing the dogs on the podium and national and international fads in regards to appearance.
Is this happening??? I hope so. But, I won't hold my breath. I still hear people say things like "well, I know he produces great but I need a big name so I can sell the puppies" or, in response to what dog they bred their bitch to they answer by saying "So and so's dog" refering to the owner and not the actual animal or its pedigree.
I bred my CZ dog about 10 times in the 8 years he's been avaiable. I have personally placed 10 pups into service as either patrol dogs or detector dogs. Others are out there doing sport, police through other avenues. Even grandpups are hitting the street now.
This is the way you understand breeding for work, by seeing, training, and applying the dogs.

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Do you see this comming the norm from here on out, a few dogs here and there producing great dogs? Do you think the days of, "oh this is the kennel to get top notch dogs from" are gone?

Tracy, I have an Asko Lutter grandson, but he's just a pup, I should be so lucky if he is anything like Asko!