I tried searching, but searching for only the word "out" was a little hard. So here's my issue...

Remi is GREAT at "out". And will spit out anything that I tell him to, always within a second or two. BUT! He will then quickly grab it again sometimes resulting in a second "out" command.

How do I get him to "out" and then "leave it" if you will so that he doesn't go after whatever it is again. I have taught him the "leave it" command for stuff that I don't want him to touch (dead squirrels, etc) but I'd rather him understand that "out" means both spit it out and don't pick it up again until I give the release...

You could teach this with a negative reinforcer, but to do so you must be able to apply a negative reinforcer. Which mean you must be close, and have control of your dog.

You could teach this with a positive reinforcer, but this requires for the dog to have a higher motivation for the reward than the object he outed.

Both methods require that the trainer be constant, and timely.

Another thought is to teach the dog to be clean during a down. That he is not allowed to pick anything up during the down. Then you can simply give the commands: "out", and then "Down". When you give a Down command the dog has much less freedom. In this position the dog will be less likely to do as he wishes. You could train this by giving the command to "out" the ball, then "down"; and then reward him if he doesn't pick the ball back up again with a release and the ball.

Having control of the dog isn't an issue for me. I use both an eCollar and prong with a long line.

So - when I ask for the out, and he outs but goes to pick up the ball again I should give him a correction? No, Out?

I'm concerned with the positive method simply because when he is in prey drive mode, there isn't anything that I can use to entice him (other than another object to chase/bite).

I used the 2 ball method to teach the out, and then used corrections once he understood what it meant. Now I just want to take it farther.

So I guess, I will keep him on the eCollar and give him the out command, then I can correct him if he picks it up before the release of "ok" (that is my release word for all commands with him)...

Anyone else have thoughts on this?

Jennifer,

I am not sure if this is the most correct thing to do, but I give the "out" command each time the dog attempts to rebite after the out, until the dog understands out means to stay out. Then the out-means-stay-out is reinforced with correction as needed.

For a pet dog, teaching the dog to back up after outing is usually sufficient unless the dog is very quick.

How old is this dog? Are you training him for bitework?

He is 16 months old. I probably won't do any professional bitework with him. But when I ask him to out I want to make sure that it's an immediate and clean command. I don't want there to be a situation where I need him to out (for example if he catches a cat) and he doesn't out or outs and then re-bites.

I don't see any reason why you shouldn't correct the dog at this point.

Give a verbal correction with a physical correction as necessary. Teach the dog that he can't grip the object again till you release him to do so.


I would use the prong collar first. Then move on with the e-collar as necessary. Unless you have already worked the out with the e-collar, then it doesn't matter much. I'd work the dog on lead and then progress to off lead. That way you can physically restrain the dog as necessary.

I wise old trainer taught me that out means out no matter what. You know that after you give the out he is gonna reengage set him up for it let me and then correct him for doing it. If you want the behavior to stop you have to make your correction mean something. The same wise old trainer told me that if your dog rebites the sleeve, tug, ball whatever with you standing right next to him what he is thinking and telling you is that he has weighted his options both pros and cons to his upcoming behavior and his wanting the toy/sleeve out weights the correction you are gonna give him thus tell you that he really doesn't respect the command and his is going to bare through that correction.

Now I am not saying that your dog does not respect you but if you continue to give repeated commands he will become condtioned to this, meaning if you always give a command followed by a verbal correction followed by a physical correction then he will begain to realize that you really don't mean it until you give him the physical correction. So what I would do is start to give the verbal command with a physical correction right from the start and see how that works.

Dog traing is a three step process. Conditioning=Response=Reward

Matt Hammond

Thank you all for your suggestions. I think I need to set him up for a situation where I know he will want to re-bite and then correct him with the prong. He definately knows the command, and I have used the command under distraction and he always complies - the trick is getting him to not re-bite.

He seems to know the difference between our training sessions (my attitude maybe) and our hanging out having fun times. But I'm gonna try and trick him. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />