Hello all:

Apologies in advance as this is a bit long.

At some point in the near future, as my housing situation changes, I hope to be able to resume rescuing German Shepherds from various pounds/shelters et al.

This is something I've done before and always found very gratifying. It was my experience with a aggressive rescued GSD that led me to this board some time ago, and since that time I have learned a fair amount and also realized I have quite a bit more yet to learn.

I have always gone under the assumption that I would rescue dogs in need, not buy a trained dog from a breeder for two main reasons 1)those well-trained, well-bred dogs will be placed in homes where they will likely not be mistreated, and will live gratifying lives and 2)my ambitions for any dog I own will probably not go beyond advanced obediance work.

I would like to be able to take on (within reason) "problem" dogs, and with my past experiences and what I have learned on here and elsewhere am reasonably confident in my ability to rehabilitate said dogs and save them from euthanization.

So at long last, here's my question:
Would it assist my efforts to purchase a well trained dog, ahead of rescuing untrained or problematic dogs? With the right gameplan, would the trained dog act as a behavioral model for the rescue?

PLEASE, Please, please dont interpret this question as a substitute for educating myself. I have and will continue to do my reading and consulting with those more educated than me.

Let me know if this is a valid concept, the "good" dog influencing the untrained one?

The well-trained dog absolutely affects the other! You may as well start with a rescue with good potential rather than purchasing a trained dog (if that is what you are implying).

OTOH, All of my rescues dog have left a "gift" with Abby. One taught her to be nasty towards females. One taught her to eat grass, another taught her to play with a ball, one taught her to whine and another to pull on a leash. Be aware that your example dog will also be learning!

It is a pretty nice model for "invisible" training. I was working with a puppy that didn't quite get the sending to his crate, but when I brought out my example dog and sent her to her crate, he "got it" right away. I have a rescue now that learned "down" by watching the other dogs - I haven't gotten that far in training with him yet!

Thanks for the reply Anne. I have hear anecdotally, about dogs influencing other dogs. do you (or others) have any thoughts about the time frame? How long between acquiring the trained dog and then adding the rescue "project" dog?

I think just once you are completely comfortable with the trained dog's house manners would be the time for a rescue. I had a change in rescues every 2 - 3 months.

Brock, I actually do something somewhat similar. Pardon for the long reply!! I have my three dogs and I take a foster dog from the humane society for the weekend to do a behavior/personality evaluation of them, try to teach them as much obedience and house training as possible, and take them on some nice hikes on the trails to blow off some steam from the stress of the shelter. If the dog is already housebroken and seems to be getting along fine with my dogs, I might foster them for longer until they get adopted. All three of my dogs, including my Schutzhund Malinois, are shelter dogs and with ground work, all have very good obedience for the average pet dog. None of them are perfect and my husky/Rott mix especially has issues, but they make good examples, so I think there is no need to buy a dog as your example dog when you can get one from the shelter or a rescue.

I have found the other dogs very very helpful in teaching the foster the general code of conduct in the house. I think it's very helpful to have all three in their down stay as I put their bowls down or to be in a sit stay while the leashes go on so they know to be calm and not make a dash for the open door for the foster to get the gist of what is being asked of them. I sometimes hear a sigh from one of them like "C'mon, get with the program already..."

My Malinois in particular is very good with other dogs and people and he has potential as what I've heard termed "healer dogs" that work with a trainer or behaviorist to help dog aggressive dogs become at least more manageable. For example, there was a couple who came to Schutzhund practice last weekend with their 5 month old German working line GSD pup who were interested in maybe starting up. After practice, I said we could introduce them and of course the pup was snarling and barking at my dog. Zoso was literally the first dog that the other dog had met outside the other dogs that they owned, so I tried to stress the importance of socialization for neutralization of other dogs. Beyond a little bristling, Zoso pretty much ignored the pup as I walked them both around together in a circle for about 2 minutes as the pup started to calm down as he realized going after my dog was going to get him nowhere. After that, they started to play. He's done this with other undersocialized dogs lacking in dog social skills.

I would adopt the example dog and train it in basic obedience and groundwork etc. for 6-12 months before starting a program like you have in mind so it is fully bonded to you. One thing I would recommend, as I ran into this problem not too long ago, make sure that whether you straight out adopt a dog from a shelter or if you work with them to foster that you get everyone their own crate. Sharing crates can lead to conflict. I would also recommend working with the shelter to be a foster for them instead of working independently as they do give me some supplies such a spare crate, collars, leashes, food bowls, and *shudder* free Science Diet. Many shelters are also likely on Petfinder.com which will help for visability. I also try to speak with the potential adoptive family myself to let them know about the good and not so good qualities of the dog. However, if you feel confident on your own, that's fine too.

And you never know what kind of potential your adopted dog can have for other activities like agility, obedience, maybe even protection sport. My Mal may never get titled in Schutzhund, but we're having a lot of fun with it and as much of a pain as his crazy high drive self is, he was the best $90 I ever spent. <img src="http://www.leerburgkennels.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I got a start when I was trying to teach my ACD 'wave' with my Collie looking on. Before the ACD got it, the Collie learned it, even though I was ignoring her! But, same thing they said--watch for the new dog teaching the trained dog bad habits. And watch for the trained dog teaching the new dog those little quirks that you find annoying but not enough so that you spend time untraining them. They'll pick those up too.

My ACD got my undying gratitude when I was helping some friends whose dog barked at any dog within 20 feet of him--I'd never trained Aussie to do this, but as the barker stopped barking when Aussie was, say, 20 feet away, I (currently with the barker and, thus, 20 feet from my dog) would motion Aussie a little closer and stop him, say 18 feet away and we'd deal with that distance, then move him closer, and Aussie figured out pretty quick what I needed him to do.

Those ACDs are very smart...and working with other dogs, it gives it a new meaning to "healer." Sorry, bad breed joke I couldn't resist. <img src="http://www.leerburgkennels.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

 Quote:

Those ACDs are very smart...and working with other dogs, it gives it a new meaning to "healer." Sorry, bad breed joke I couldn't resist.

Hardee-har ^_^ Actually, Aussie has done an excellent job, once he got over being a PITA teenager, of helping my oldish Collie healthwise--she actually started playing for the first time in years. That and he's done a pretty good job of teaching my GSD pup (8 1/2 mths) how to behave properly.