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........Again, you guys are the best!

This is true. <img src="http://www.leerburg.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.leerburg.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

To me, that seems like way too much obedience to be doing with a 6 month old. It may seem that he likes it, but to get that level of control I assume you have used a good measure of compulsion. . .which = stress. Putting stress on a young male will often elicit submission urination. It is a survival mechanism and is probably totally involuntary. I have seen young males that submission urinate at the slightest level of domination or pressure from their handler or strangers.

Most males will outgrow this, if this is submission urination. UTI is very likely and the dog should go to the vet. There are other, more serious, reasons that a dog urinates a lot.




I disagree that anyone should put that level of obedience on a pup of that age, not if they are going to be training the dog for any working discipline. If the dog performs to that level, I would be very surprised if the dog isn't being affected by the pressure of your training. Not to say that he doesn't like training, or that you don't have a good bond, or that this is bad, but it would be very abnormal for a dog of that age to be unaffected by that much obedience training. . .unless you are using nothing but positive methods. Especially considering the bloodlines. The German showlines tend to be more sensitive than the working bloodlines.

You might consider easing up a bit and allowing the dog to mature some more before continued serious training. It will depend on your training methods and your goals for the dog. Absolute obedience at a young age usually comes at the cost of breaking down some of the dog's independance and strength of will.

Good luck.

Robert:

That was an excellent piece of advice. You hit it on the head all the way around.

I am going to dial back the obedience demands and concominant pressure on this dog for the next several months and see what happens with the piddling. I started this approach on Monday and already see that the dog is much more playful and expressive in his interaction with me.

I realize that just because he has such a high level of fundamental obedience doesn't mean that it should be pushed to the highest degree of use at such an early age. It's like immediately redlining a finely built racecar without properly breaking in the engine and transmission first. He definitely needs to be free to fully benefit from the learning experiences of his developmental childhood years.

The good thing is that the dog is still extremely well behaved and responds magnificently to my body language so as not to demand inordinate amounts of attention or engage in mouthing, jumping etc.

Thank God these wonderful animals are so forgiving of errant handler problems and spring right back from our errors.

This GSD is about as awesome as they get and I want to take him to the highest level of achievement that his genetics and proper training will permit. I certainly do not want to do anything now that will ruin him.

This piddling is probably going to turn out to be a serindipitous event! <img src="http://www.leerburg.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.leerburg.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Hi Michael I PM'd you as well. We have a 14 month old GSD. At 8 weeks when we got him he dribbled like a pup when excited but as he got older it didn't stop. It was getting worse. We went to the vets and he was treated for UTI's, bladder infections and nothing. He dribbled everywhere in the crate, in the house in the car...it was an uncontrolable condtion. Everywhere he went and lay down when he got up there was a wet spot. There was no correction for this because we knew in our hearts that he wasn't doing this on purpose. When he actually lifted his leg to pee he would think he was finished and walk away still peeing. Remember that he was not doing this on purpose. We were finally referred to the University Vetranarians where a series of tests were done....ultra sounds, gravity testing etc.....They suspected a growth on his kidney and was agreed to operate. Well they found that the growth turned out to be an irregular shaped left kidney. Also bilaterally enlarged ureters, abnormal nodules diffusely over the capsule of the prostrate, a distended slightly flaccid bladder and a markedly dilated proximal urethra. They slung up his urethra. Now he doesn't dribble but he can't pee. He has to catheterized twice a day at 40 dollars a pop. He is 14 months old and a BEAUTIFUL ANIMAL in every way possble. Just a joy to have as a pet. An animal that was born deformed. One that you may read about in the obituary columns soon. I hate to even think of this but our only other option is to learn how to catheterize him ourselves which will cut the costs. As all of our dogs ADANAC is sooooooo smart, playful, obediant, friendly, wise, to put him down would make me feel like a killer. I hope that your situation is not like ours Michael....I am so confused on what to do!!! Mark R.

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.........He has to catheterized twice a day at 40 dollars a pop. He is 14 months old and a BEAUTIFUL ANIMAL in every way possble. Just a joy to have as a pet. An animal that was born deformed. One that you may read about in the obituary columns soon. I hate to even think of this but our only other option is to learn how to catheterize him ourselves which will cut the costs. As all of our dogs ADANAC is sooooooo smart, playful, obediant, friendly, wise, to put him down would make me feel like a killer. I hope that your situation is not like ours Michael....I am so confused on what to do!!! Mark R.

I have learned to catheterize a neighbor's elderly cat as my neighbor held him. t was a steep learning curve, but after three times we both found it pretty simple and easy. (The vet instructed us, of course.)

We discussed quality of life, naturally. If the catheterizing twice a day was just misery for the animal, I would not in any way feel like a killer if I decided to end my own dog's physical misery. Not at all. No, I would feel that it was a gift I could give to my dear friend.

If the dog was otherwise healthy and happy and didn't hate the process twice a day, then that would be the basis of my decision. I would also discuss in clear terms with the vet the prognosis for him as he ages.

Only you can decide, but it will be much easier if you have all the facts and have learned how much you can do with home care.

May I add, too, that as awful as it is to have to consider money, it's a fact of life. If a prohibitive expense is the only way to keep the dog going, then it's not your fault in any way if you cannot support the expense.

We can do our best, but no one can do more. Good luck.

Thanks Connie for your reply! The vet will show the wife how to cathertize Adanac. He needs no anathesia. He lays there and lets the girls do thier thing. He's such a good boy........just walked in the room right now to let me know it's time to go and work with the ball. We've been so messed up here mentally it's been up and down like a roller coaster...crying and the like. Thanks again Connie!

Mark, I understand how you must feel. If the wife is able to do the job, & the dog is otherwise happy, I would think he has a really great quality of life still in him. You are good people to do this for him.

Thank You Susan! He's still a puppy to us. I mean he has a long life ahead of him if we let him you know what I mean? The quality of life is there his only problem is he can't urinate. Before the surgury he dribbled everywhere. I was against the surgery myself I wanted him to be an outside dribbling dog. I feel that your'e never the same after a surgery wether on a human or on an animal, successful or not....once cut...never the same, always in pain for the rest of your/its life!! The wife was the one keen on stopping the dribbling because she didn't want the poor guy left outside away from his family pack. Just who she is.. The surgeon didn't guarantee it. Now it's a bad situation. I wish he was still dribbling. I should also say he does pee but not enough to empty the bladder completely and it is streched out and not in good shape. We were going to put him down...then the tears and the fact that we love him sooooo much and have that choice to keep his tail wagging......well all of you animal lovers know what were' goin to do.......... give it a chance anyways. Keep you posted Mark R.

For me, it's a matter of perspective. I know a lot of people that live with aches & pains that at times can seem overwhelming, but the light in our eyes are still glowing, there are many, many more good days than bad, so life is still good & I bet it's the same for your pup.