Hi folks,I do bite work with 2 GSD and the differences in the grips are just to opposite to ignore.The older dog a W.German female almost from day one has gripped like a vise and it has been a joy watching her develop.The 11mo. male czech pup on the other hand is completely the opposite and still wants to chew on the item or constantly regrip which causes him to lose the item which frustrates the hell out of him,which is good.Anyway my point is this,from day one I have observed a natural/genetic tendency for the W.German dog to have steadier calmer grips than the Czech dog.I know these are training issues and in time the younger dog will develop calm grips as well,but my point is that with the German dog it's like it was already bred into her to grip like this.I love everything else about the male pup,his drives are insane and he's already showing signs of having some no BS defensive drives which is good because he's destined to be a PPD,it's just that it's taking him longer to develop his grip.The female is a prey monster and so far sees all bite work as a game,the male is more serious and his attitude is like "ok just stop running by with the damn thing so I can kill it"Anybody else notice differences in grip by blood lines?

Absolutely...flawless grips are definitely highly heritable. However, you can't paint with so bold a stroke as to say entire nationalities are one way or another. There are plenty of czech dogs that grip perfectly, and tons of german dogs who don't. But when the parents have that god-given flawless grip, you've got an outstanding chance that the pups will also. And vice versa.

With specific lines? Yes.
With generalizations based on locale? No.

Our Czech male is the hardest biting dog we have, the calmest on the sleeve, the most serious (does not look at protection as a game), and that includes our WGR/Belgian bitch that can flatten a Schweikert 83, making it difficult to slip.

I'm in agreement with the last two posters - good grips can run in bloodlines, but not by country of origin.

Ed,
My dog out of Czech lines was rated as a level 9 grip by Bernhard Flinks this weekend. His father was also know for his awesome grip. I've had better luck with the Czech dogs concerning grip than I ever did with West German lines.
So experiences vary! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Will,
Wish I could have made the trip. How does Bernard Flinks rate the grip? Is it something he guestimates at by using his vast experience catching dogs, or is it more scientific than that?

I believe he has calibrated it with the size of Alex's grin. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Howard,
He and the helper go into discussion over the grip at various times. It includes the grip on the sleeve while the dog is both on the helper and carrying the sleeve afterwards. It actually becomes pretty apparent to the seminar atttendies after a few observations what constitutes a good grip .Calm, full, strong grips with no mouthing are obviously the goal of Bernhard's training methods.

Plus Bernhard gives you a detailed program to improve grips if your dog is mouthy/chewy on the sleeve. My showlines bitch had a level 3 grip at the last seminar ( yes.....I was embarrassed ) but I worked on it on a daily basis and now her grip is up to a lvl 5 , which is her max. genetic potential for grip - it was well worth the effort to get that level of improvement. Unfortunately, improving grip does take literally months of dedicated effort to work on and a lot of handlers can't put the time needed into repairing previous bad training.

On the plus side, there were three dogs at the seminar with excellent genetic grips ( one was a Leerburg dog ) and considering the size of the seminar, that was a real positive about dogs being worked in America.

Will,
Thanks for the explanation. One other question....Is the grip rated with the handler in the immediate area or at a distance? I know that some dogs will begin to typwrite on the sleeve when the handler approaches. Mine is beginning to do this when he never did before. I beleive he is anticipating the out and he is beginning to get sloppy. Its pissing me off. At distance he stays with a full mouth and outs pretty clean. On the street with a real bite he stays with the full mouth unless he readjusts to get a better grip. Its only in training that he starts to chatter on the sleeve. Weird, though he doesnt do it on the suit <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Howard,
It's rated when the dog is under the highest level of stress or activation for the dog. A level 9 grip back at the car with a level 5 grip on the sleeve during the escape comes out to...a level 5 grip rating. No surprise there.

Gotcha, Thanks!