Re: Rethinking the Beware of Dog Sign...
[Re: alice oliver ]
#114115 - 09/20/2006 12:42 PM |
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For normal, protective dogs, how about "Please do not enter, dogs in yard". But for dogs that you know may well bite, I think something stronger is warranted, in addition to a good fence. A picture of a snarling dog does not require translation into Spanish. The truth is that if a kid is bitten, and the parents sue, they will be able to find out about your dogs training and temperment, and bite history.
Good points Polly. Here's an article that is kind of parallel to what you said:
http://www.workingdogs.com/doc0027.htm
Lynn, I didn't think of poison <img src="http://www.leerburg.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />
Thanks Alice <img src="http://www.leerburg.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> It's very nice, nestled in The Enchanted Mountains. No where near as beautiful as Montana though! <img src="http://www.leerburg.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> I'll kind of miss this slum in a way. Where else can you see a freak show at any given time of day for FREE!? lol <img src="http://www.leerburg.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
Originally we were going to fence off the whole property but I found that kids cut thru and I didn't want them jumping over the fence to keep using their shortcut. I thought the no trespassing signs were a little hostile when I was looking at them in the store... kind of Freemen like <img src="http://www.leerburg.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
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Re: Rethinking the Beware of Dog Sign...
[Re: Lynn Ballard ]
#114116 - 09/20/2006 12:43 PM |
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Arizona Dog Law (particularly SubSection B):
13-1208. Assault; Vicious Animals; Classification; Exception
B. A person who owns a dog which the owner knows or has reason to know that the dog has a propensity to attack, to cause injury or otherwise endanger the safety of human beings without provocation or which has been found to be a vicious animal and who keeps the dog or vicious animal in an enclosed area or yard outside of a residence or structure on the property shall post a notice indicating the presence of the dog or vicious animal.
There is also another section that explains lawful presence on private property and one that says the only defense is if the victim of the bite provoked the attack.
On the latter section, I see a huge problem with the word "provocation", which a dumb judge or jury could define anyway they want, ie: did the criminal that entered your yard physically provoke the dog, or was he casually whistling Dixie as he strolled by the dog to get to you or the goods in your house....One man's definition will not necessarily be another man's definition. The word "provocation" is way too vague, IMO, and needs to be way more clearly defined and to encompass breaking and entering. It's dumb laws like this that give the criminals more protection than is afforded to the real victims.
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Re: Rethinking the Beware of Dog Sign...
[Re: Sandy Moore ]
#114117 - 09/20/2006 01:15 PM |
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Lynn, you can train your dog not to eat food lying around. There are ways to do it, they may be described on this site somewhere. Good way to prevent poisoning but it may bring in some other issues, IIRC.
Alice, I think the person just made it. She showed a photo of it on her door, it was very pretty looking, just "Please be aware there are chows and german shepherds here," I think in purple capitalized font, and then there was a chow in the door window helping to illustrate the point. <img src="http://www.leerburg.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> I wouldn't get one of those ugly signs, I'd find a way to say it in a few langauges (English, Spanish, whatever may be common in my area) and make it look visible yet nice so homeowners don't complain. I don't want to be a gross neighbor and have ugly placards peppering the perimeter (unless I have enough property) but I do want to make the statement clear.
Sandy, yes that "provocation" requirement is way, way too broad. You'd have to have an attorney with loads of proof from various sources stating that to a dog, entering a property without permission of its owner (its leader) is provocation enough, and even then you could get screwed, especially knowing how today's sue-happy society is.
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Re: Rethinking the Beware of Dog Sign...
[Re: Diana Matusik ]
#114118 - 09/21/2006 06:20 AM |
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...Sandy, yes that "provocation" requirement is way, way too broad. You'd have to have an attorney with loads of proof from various sources stating that to a dog, entering a property without permission of its owner (its leader) is provocation enough, and even then you could get screwed, especially knowing how today's sue-happy society is.
Agreed, entering without permission would be provocation enough for a dog, just as any installed security system which doesn't differentiate between someone breaking into your house to rob/rape/kill or someone breaking in to say "hi" (ha!). My dog is my "security system", I don't expect him to differentiate either - a break-in is a break-in.
My older son sent me this, some of you may have read it before. What a crack-up, and it would work too!:
HOW TO INSTALL A HOME SECURITY SYSTEM
1. Go to a second-hand store and buy a pair of men's used size 14-16 work boots.
2. Place them on your front porch, along with several empty beer cans, a copy of Guns & Ammo magazine and several NRA magazines.
3. Put a few giant dog dishes next to the boots and magazine.
4. Leave a note on your door that reads: "Hey Bubba, Big Jim, Duke and Slim, I went to the gun shop for more ammunition. Back in an hour. Don't mess with the pit bulls -- they attacked the mailman this morning and messed him up real bad. I don't think Killer took part in it but it was hard to tell from all the blood.
PS - I locked all four of 'em in the house. Better wait outside.
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Re: Rethinking the Beware of Dog Sign...
[Re: Sandy Moore ]
#114119 - 09/21/2006 08:23 AM |
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Re: Rethinking the Beware of Dog Sign...
[Re: Sandy Moore ]
#114120 - 09/21/2006 08:40 AM |
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before. What a crack-up, and it would work too!:
HOW TO INSTALL A HOME SECURITY SYSTEM
1. Go to a second-hand store and buy a pair of men's used size 14-16 work boots.
2. Place them on your front porch, along with several empty beer cans, a copy of Guns & Ammo magazine and several NRA magazines.
3. Put a few giant dog dishes next to the boots and magazine.
4. Leave a note on your door that reads: "Hey Bubba, Big Jim, Duke and Slim, I went to the gun shop for more ammunition. Back in an hour. Don't mess with the pit bulls -- they attacked the mailman this morning and messed him up real bad. I don't think Killer took part in it but it was hard to tell from all the blood.
PS - I locked all four of 'em in the house. Better wait outside.
Having described "the farm" where I used to hunt I would like to point out a few inaccuracies.
1) The work boots aren't really work boots. They are size 13 yellow work boots caked in either concrete or mud.
2) Beer cans in the summer, bottles in the winter (this was up north). reasoning is that beer will skunk in the summer in a bottle. In the winter you can store the beer in the snow and use the long neck for retrieval.
3) I read no-where about having a deer hanging in the front yard (you need to brad to your neighbors).
4) Truck should be covered in various stickers. Mine has NRA, TSRA, NYSRPA stickers on it (as well as a Glock and Apple sticker too).
5) At the farm the farm dog ended up getting hit by a car. Before then he managed to bite pretty much anyone that came on the property. All farms in the area had a farm dog. More mongrel like the better. This one was a lab/shep/rhino (it was huge and fat and mean). Must be tied up to either a tree of a zip line.
6) Saw no mention of dead cars, dead lawn mower or rusted old tractor...
7) Grandparents has sign on door that reads "I don't dial 911 I dial 357" and "Forget about dog, beware of owner".
List could go on, but no one ever broke into the farm. I wish I was kidding...but I'm not.
Now on to the viscious dog comments:
In bullet 5 I mention the proverbial "junk yard dog". It was true. For whatever reason the dog never attacked a family member but it was completely unsocialized, unstable, under-exercised and over-fed and just plain dumb. Never trained, always barking, always chained up. Had this dog been trained it would have not been hit by the car. A solid recall would have saved his life. he may have been a nasty mongrel of a dog but he was still my uncle and grandparents pet. It is the reason I work on recall with my dog.
I remember when my family watched my grandparents dog for a week one winter...on walks it drug my father all over the place - and my dad was at least 200 lbs. at the time.
For some unknown reason which I cannot explain now my parents let us kids play with that dog that winter and let us try to walk him around the yard...I think everyone thought it was funny to have the dog dragging us through the snow. I think this was before the first time he bit someone for entering "his property", a kid selling boy scout popcorn.
This dog was one of the many dogs I have met in my life that made me search out this forum, buy Ed's fantastic videos, train my own dog BETTER than my friends who paid A LOT more for training lessons (2 dogs so they probably paid $300) and they don't even have a tape to refer back too. I would say if I had never met any "bad" dogs then I would not have gone out of my way to make sure I have a "good" dog.
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Re: Rethinking the Beware of Dog Sign...
[Re: Chris_Harvey ]
#114121 - 09/21/2006 08:57 AM |
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I don't know if you're kidding or not Chris, but LOL <img src="http://www.leerburg.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
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Re: Rethinking the Beware of Dog Sign...
[Re: Barbara Erdman ]
#114122 - 09/21/2006 10:37 AM |
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All true.
Especially why I chose to train my dog and train him well.
FWIW (nd to get back on topic) - My grandparents did have a BEWARE of DOG sign on their property when they had Bruno. They were fortunate enough to not get sued when he bit the kid on the leg.
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Re: Rethinking the Beware of Dog Sign...
[Re: Barbara Erdman ]
#114123 - 09/21/2006 01:35 PM |
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Mike A.
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Re: Rethinking the Beware of Dog Sign...
[Re: Barbara Erdman ]
#114124 - 09/21/2006 02:57 PM |
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this might not be exactly related to the question, but i tend to think that "signs with implication" are a safer bet than "beware of dog" signs.
i have a sign that says "keep gate closed" and underneath is an sillhouette of a fence and several dogs behind it. i have it mainly because 1) i dont want my dogs to get out of the yard because someone didnt latch the gate. i always do, but if say someone came into the yard while the dogs werent there, so they didnt know i had dogs and left the gate open. 2)I also have friends who know i have dogs but STILL dont latch the gate! (this sign is supposed to help them remember too--they arent too bright) and 3) it does serve as some sort of warning to intruder or passerby that i have dogs, but not so blatant as : WARNING! ATTACK DOGS!! or something like that. I think the same would hold true for any sign that hints that you have a dog. (my personal favorite was one that said something like: "my german shepherd can run from my door to this gate in 5 seconds. Can you?" i thought that was great <img src="http://www.leerburg.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
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