My 9month old Mal was making great entries, but has slowed down lately. I watch each entry he has ever made to spot if he has a bad one, and they all have seem to be OK. He is training NVBK so the dog does absorb more impact than in Schutzund. However, we use different kinds of sleeves our sleeves are soft like a suit. I have worked on building entries before with other dogs and I just went back to basics, bungee work, and resistance attacks (him pulling hard while on lead until right before he lunges and then let him have slack). I just would like to hear what others have tried for building harder entries (please post those that worked <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> ) Also, does anyone know if Ed covers this in any of his videos? Thanks

I suggest finding out if it's anything medical first. Do you know of a vet who is experienced with canine sports medicine in your area? They could give him a complete chiropratic workup. And I'd take a good look at his mouth too. For starters anyway.

Thanks for the post. I checked his mouth earlier today, and usually a few times a week I check his mouth, I actually attempt to wiggle teeth and what not. I had a few dogs in the past that were great dogs and low and behold one day I'd notice a chipped K9 or something, so I'm real paranoid about the teeth. Yesterday, I laid him on the ground and made him torque his body in different ways (with my help of course) to see if he gives me a sign of discomfort, I also, applied pressure on each vertibrae, and moved his head in different directions including placing my hand under his mouth, my palm up, and pushing his head back, gently applying pressure, all with no reaction. I'm not a vet of course, but I bet I know more than the ones down here, LOL :rolleyes: <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> .

Chris,

Forgive me, the only sport I know well enough to comment on is French Ring <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> but going back to basics never hurt anyone, IMO. I am in no way an expert, but I found that building frustration works wonders for a high-drive dog whose attacks have been a bit off. It certainly worked for my girl. I've got a 35 lb. border collie (now retired) that was like a bolt of lightning on her attacks.

We accomplished this by putting each dog back on a long bungee and harness. The decoy was out on the field, just out of reach of the bungee, teasing the living hell out of the dog. Never mind the obedience- we'd just pump them up, encourage them. When given the attack command, the dog would do its thing and JUST miss the decoy, of course. After two or three misses the dogs were so nuts to get the bite that when they eventually did, they did some serious hurt to the decoy. Okay, the REST of them did- my girl was a little too small to leave bruises, but she came in fast enough to knock some decoys down. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Conversely, I have seen the most rabid biters stall after running into a decoy that did not know how to properly absorb an attack. If there is nothing physically wrong with your boy and your decoys are knowledgeable then why not go back to building up frustration and doing a little targeting work?

Again, I've only been doing this a short time compared to some of the people on this board but this method worked very well for my club's dogs. If this sounds over-simplified then blame my poor explanation skills (lol) but I hope you can get some use from it!

Here's a couple of things to try:
1. Frustrate the dog on a leash before the send
2. Have the decoy run backwards as the dog approaches.
3. Have the dog drag a car tire behind him.
4. have the decoy fall upon impact.
5. Run up the field with your dog and praise him physically and verbally throughout the exercise.

It's possible that the dog is recieving too much pressure from the decoy too soon in the training. it's also possible that the dog is getting bored. There's several possible reasons for slow entries. Hopefully some of these techniques will help. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I had a success today, I worked him in some light defense, so he would really get fired up, but didn't give him a bite for about 20 min (3 bites in 45min). And when he did get a bite I kept it close, I held him back and meanwhile he was pulling hard on the end of the leash and the decoy came just out of reach to make him miss the first two bites, then in to where my dog only had to take about one step into the bite, he was hitting like his old self, with some serious pisstivity I might add <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> . I think I might try this way for about the next week to two weeks, then move him to the bungee where he can get longer bites but will still have to endure resistance. I just ordered a bungee tie out. My other I was using, was all I could find until now, and it was the rubber stretches that you get from wal-mart, not good, I don't recommend these, the dogs hit the stretch limit(which is only about 2feet) to fast that if your decoy isn't set at the perfect distance than your dog will get snapped back. I believe that may have some reasoning behind this with slowing up that he has been doing, he is anticipating the hard end of the line. This new one starts at 15' and stretches to 30. I figure I'll put the decoy at about the 27-28 mark, and let him get longer bites that way. I think I took him off the bungee to fast, and then didn't go back to it enough. Germain Pauwels (NVBK president) told me they use the bungee all the time on their CAT 1's and as long as the dog is competing.

PS: ED check into the bungees man, there is a need for them, I had to hunt like hell to find a real one made for tieing a dog out. And only one place that I found had them.

It's an old post, but quite interesting.

I don't think I would like bungee tie outs...I use (a) tied-to-something bungee(s) depending on the strength of the dog, but I'm always in control of the bungee...and the dog. Snap backs are not good.

Am I misreading the tie out bungees? Are these actually tied onto a harness on one end, to something fixed on the other and the dog left alone?

Regarding improving already fast entries for a practical dog...with a super fast entry it is easier to make the dog miss, but...to improve the speed I've had some success - after using the ideas that have already been posted - by asking the decoy to make believe he's running - on the long bite - and when the dog's close to REALLY run like hell in an open J, with the target being the tricep area.

The dog learns to anticipate an increase in speed from the decoy. The other ideas are good for up close power.

Also, a dog with any modicum of intelligence will anticipate the hits and reduce impact speed. The decoy here needs to be good, by trying to entice the dog to move fastest at the end of the pursuit and not crash the dog (too often).

This is nothing new, but since it hadn't been posted, I thought to add it.

I know this is old I didn't see it for some reason. The bungees from the other place are a bit (way) too long so we make our own here. We get the cord and all the stuff to make it from a surplus store. It is also less than half the price to do it this way and you get what you want. Imagine that <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />

The bungee I bought (somewhere off the net) I'm loving. It is perfect. It's 15ft and stretches to 30. For resistance bites, I have learned how to use it like a leash, and have found success with my dog and another dog. The bungee is held about half way, the dog is sent out, he is pulling through the bungee dragging you to the decoy, then I let up and let the rest of the cord go until I have the end and then I post up (stand still) and let him fight through the bungee again, the rest of the way to the decoy (decoy needs to be constantly aware of the bungees stretch capabilities based on that very moment). At the entry point having the dog jump through a Hula Hoop held chest level to the decoy, because the dog feels he has to fight harder to get up to his bite by having to clear the hula hoop. This has been working good, but you need a little room to do this, and have the points pre marked on the field where the handler will stop and where the decoy will stop, and where the handler releases to the end of the bungee and so fourth.

I love using the bungee in bite training. I think there is a period or window in almost all bite development where it "can" be used. I recently used it on my Mal pup. The pup was doing well with carrying the sleeve and holding it good and not letting me pull it away, it was also doing well with going out after the bite and hitting the sleeve with a full deep mouth. The problem was in putting the two together. The bungee did a great job in getting the pup(9 months) to put the two together.