Quote: konnie hein

I certainly don't know the circumstances of either bite situation, but I can't see why the Police Chief thinks this dog would make a good search and rescue dog. A dog that "has gone into an unprovoked aggressive mode in two separate incidents over the past year" (direct quote from the article) is absolutely NOT suitable for SAR. Imagine sending this dog to find a small lost child. Given its history, is it worth the risk?

A SAR dog must have a completely stable temperament. Period.

While I agree with the SAR dog needing the stable temperament part, I disagree with the statement, "going into unprovoked attacks". The first incident was him "lunging" at another officer of the department. This could have been the dog being startled or maybe they had just got done working and the dog lunged while still "in drive" and the officer was too close and the dog thought they were still training or the officer was staring the dog down and he took it as a challenge and warned the officer to stop staring. The second incident was a young man being told to "stay away from the dog". This young man sounds like he had absolutely no respect for the LE Officer and approached anyway and got bit for his stupidity.
Both my Mali and my Bloodhound have very stable temperaments but "dogs will be dogs". My BH gets cranky when he has worked hard and is tired and my Malinois goes to her crate when tired and does not like to be bothered by "Oh look at the pretty doggie" crap. They are also both protective of the home and property. Is this unstable? Absolutely not, they are dogs and need their space. My dogs have never bitten anyone but they have given the "leave me alone NOW" warning and I make sure that I step in and fix the situation. More than once I have probably offended someone by telling them that my dogs are not nicey nice pets but working dogs and both dogs are very social but also very serious about their jobs. People do not understand that working dogs, especially a PSD's are not meant to be "gooey, mushy, come and pet me" dogs. That is what Labs are for. (just kidding):-)
I think this dog may be being sold due to handler inexperience and maybe they are realizing that it is too much dog for the officer. No harm in that at all, but to call this "unprovoked attacks" and then in the next sentence say the man was warned before the dog bit was not right.
Without evaluating the dog or getting more information on what actually happened we will never know and that is the sad part, the dog cannot tell his side.
I see people and actually know people who sit there and put thoughts into a dogs head (my sister is famous for it), how are we to know what an animal who can lick his own butt is thinking? We can't. We read body language and learn to know our dogs inside and out and it is up to us as handlers to make sure our dogs are behaved and in control in public.
This dog may actually be able to be turned into a nice SAR dog. It is unfortunate that we will probably never know.

Carol:
One thing is for sure, this article is frustrating for multiple reasons! I agree the attacks do sound provoked. I also agree that "dogs will be dogs" and every dog has its limits, however, I still strongly believe that a SAR dog must not be easily provoked by stare-downs or civilian meddling. Sounds like we agree on that issue. Even though I don't know the details of either situation (or if the description in the article is correct), I can't ever imagine a SAR dog responding to people in the manner described in the article. After recently traveling to Tennessee via airplane with my FEMA USAR dog (the dog rides in-cabin with me), I can tell you that a lot of people stared at him and tried to touch him without my permission. Some people even acted outwardly afraid of him, letting out startled gasps. As absolutely expected and required, my dog never flinched and took it all in stride. A few years ago a small child even ran up from behind me to my Malinois at the airport, throwing her arms around him. He totally ignored her. Can't imagine what would have happened if he had a touchy trigger! If I allow it, my FEMA dog will act "gooey, mushy, come and pet me." But when he's working, he's all business.

"People will be people," thus SAR dogs (who by trade are routinely exposed to a variety of people, including the mentally disabled and children) absolutely should not disobey by attacking someone - provoked or unprovoked. I'm not at all trying to be argumentative, but as you can tell, this is a subject I feel strongly about. I've seen way too many weak-nerved and unstable dogs trying to be passed off as SAR dogs. It frustrates the hell out of me. IMO, its just an accident waiting to happen.

And hey, watch the digs on the labradors, would ya? Just so happens that they make awesome detector dogs! Isn't that what its all about?

Hey Konnie,
I totally agree with you and I work very hard to expose my dogs to all types of situations. We make twice a week visits to the Nursing Home here and there are several people with disabilities that we visit also. On top of that we got to the grade schools and high schools for children interaction and the dogs attend all fire safety trainings we do for the kids. Not to mention the real life people and other animals we run into when training sessions are going on. I trust my dogs to behave in public. The Bloodhound is the one I watch more than the Mali. The Mali is a "mooshy girl", but like you said, only when it is allowed. Main thing for me is when they are in their "space" and especially if they choose that space on their own. Our first plane ride (with the Mal) will be at the end of December so I am looking forward to that.
It frustrates me also that there are people out there with dogs that have no business trying to do SAR or any other type of "work" with their dogs. If one of my dogs were to all of the sudden stop working, and after all possible tests were exhausted and they were a wash out, then they would have a fantastic home and I would look for another prospect for training.
It is not fair to the Organizations we belong to, the victims or anyone else involved in a search to have a mediocre dog and it galls me that there are people out there who keep their dogs in it hoping for the miracle that the dog is suddenly going to be the dog they want.
I apologize for the Lab dig
I have an awesome Black Lab for a bird dog and also know a few in the Explosive Detection Field and Arson Field. They do make great detectors but man, if only they had a brain....hee hee
Take care and I think we can agree that we are in this for the same reasons and take our work very seriously which is as it should be.
Carol

 Quote:

It is not fair to the Organizations we belong to, the victims or anyone else involved in a search to have a mediocre dog and it galls me that there are people out there who keep their dogs in it hoping for the miracle that the dog is suddenly going to be the dog they want.

You are so right!!!

OK,

Can someone please explain why, if the young man was told NOT to approach the dog, he did so anyway? I am just a little confused.

Sometimes people get the notion that, "All animals love them." Timothy Treadwell is a famous example of that.
We will never really know the real reason he did not listen to the Officer and stay away from the dog. He may have been altered by drugs or alcohol, he may have had a disability that affected his thinking, or IMHO happens more often than the above, he just had absolutely no respect for the Officer or the dog and chose to approach.
I went to a workshop for law enforcement dogs and actually watched woman (whom I know and have just given up on warnings) walk up to a patrol vehicle and stick her face near the cage and tell the dog how "cute" he was....YIKES, the dog let her know to get away. She was really lucky there was a cage between them. This woman has repeatedly done things like this and just does not learn. Different dog, same scenario over and over. I try and tell her not to do it but the "stupid" factor overtakes common sense. All I can say is that sometimes when you play with fire you must get burned in order to learn a lesson.

i agree with carol's comments about the stupid factor taking over. these are police dogs working the streets,not dogs that every joe public can pet.these police dog handlers depend on thses dogs to catch criminals who are not going to pet the dogs,the punch,kick,and choke dogs, making every attempt to get away.

i agree with carol's comments about the stupid factor taking over. these are police dogs working the streets,not dogs that every joe public can pet.these police dog handlers depend on thses dogs to catch criminals who are not going to pet the dogs,the punch,kick,and choke dogs, making every attempt to get away.

FYI, certain citizens actually have tried to get my dog to bite them so they could sue the PD. They know the city will settle out of court for financial reasons. Alot of them figure a PSD bite is woth 5-10 grand. Crazy.

Howard