Anita and Mike thanks for the encouragement, Will, I think you are going to have to teach me how to use this forum more efficiently, lol. I'm still trying to figure out how to get around without going forward and back ten times!

MERRY CHRISTMAS TO ALL!!

Robbin,

Two and a half years ago when I bought my pup, I bought him from an officer of the local DVG America chapter, and his parents, back many generations, were titled, generally all Sch III males and Sch I females. His parents were German. I was looking for the kind of dog you describe, I think, a healthy "working" dog, not a show dog, but not a very high drive dog. I chose the most mellow male pup in the litter. I didn't worry about protection because I had an older female GSD mix who was already far more protective then I liked. I did not realize at the time that the pup was a West German high line dog. The breeder did not deceive me in any way, I just didn't understand exactly what I was buying.

I love my dog. He is mellow, has enough drive to play for long periods, but then will flop on the floor next to me and relax. He is very obedient, and can be walked off lead in many situations. He looks fierce, just from his size, breed and body language, and he acts fierce on occasion when he thinks it is important. Since he is an adult, I have never met anyone who has tried to touch him without asking permission first. They are not being polite, they are worried he will bite. They can't tell he is a doll. He has never bitten, and that is fine with me. My other dog has bitten, and has to be crated whenever guests are over. This is not amusing, not relaxing. My kids were 3, 5 and 8 when we adopted her, and had a lot of serious problems. No-one would dare try and enter our house or touch a kid, but it is a minor miracle she never did any real damage. The young male doesn't try and pull rank in the family, the older dog certainly has.

Obviously, my opinion is based on my experience, but it is also based on your own statements about what you want, and what you don't want. With young kids, and an inexperienced owner, I would get a dog far more like mine then like the real working dogs that many people on this forum have and love. My next dog will have more drive, because I will have more experience, but I am really happy with my choice on this pup. And I cannot imagine that I will ever buy a real high drive working dog. I won't have that kind of time until I retire, and then I doubt I will be physically strong enough to do it justice.

Thank you Polly for your op. This is one of the reasons that I have felt that a show dog that works may not be such a bad thing for me. The pup I am looking at has a long, long line of males that are Sch3 and females that are shc1 or more. He is also a show quality dog. This may mean that he is not as driven as a working dog but I really don't know if I have the experience/time or abilities to take care of a dog like this. Especially with my little ones at home at two other full time canine pain in the butts! I would like I dog that I can train in obedience, hopefully do some tracking and some protection but on a sch level for fun and sport. The sch president here in my area has agreed to take me under her wing personally and train with me at her home, since I am unable to make many of the meets. I am hoping that just being a gsd he will exude the impression of power and strength. Besides anyone I ever knew that owned a gsd always had a dog that was in some way mildly if not, on occasion, overtly protective. Everyone in this forum talks of experience and I have none. I think it is best to play with the puppys and leave the big dogs to piss off the porch. lol

I don't like generalizations about lines... my showline wanted to bite kids in the face (playfully) when he was younger, never got the chance to actually do it because I'd get on him hard for it, but it wasn't till he was over 2 years old that he started acting less goofy n trusting him off leash around kids in my house. Not exactly the ideal family puppy right? lol. He's a good dog though, but had his quirks when he was younger. Showlines have alot of problems if you don't know where you're going, they can be nervy n in a bad scenario you'll end up with a shy dog that growls at anyone who wants to pet him n stands a high chance of fear biting, issues with handler sensitivity, so imagine the dog slinking away out of the room hanging his head anytime you raise your voice at the kids or a door slams in the house. Issues with noises, fireworks n such. You really need to find the right litter and know what you're looking for to truly get a nice showline dog. Lots of things to consider. Ofcourse, the same applies to working lines too, you are more likely to find what you want in the showlines, but don't just go to any shmuck breeding showlines, especially none of the morons breeding that golden middle crap, do your research, see if you can find people with nice showlines doing Schutzhund n find out the breeder n lines for their dogs, ask around n be patient.

I completely agree with Mike. A dog bred for sport is a far better choice then a dog bred for show. My dog is very steady, is almost never nervous, never starts at loud sounds, thunder, fireworks, motorcycles. He is sort of red and black, but has clearly not been bred for appearance, and the colors are paler then the real show dogs, and he doesn't have the large, defined black saddle popular with the show people. I socialized him every day with kids, strangers, and other dogs (carefully) when he was a pup, and he is safe with everyone. I have never had a worry about fear aggression, handler aggression. He has never growled at anyone, except the stranger who entered my mother's house when she was alone there. We were away, and he clearly felt she needed protection.

My dog's grandfather was Otis vom Jacobiner Schloss, her great-grandfather was Natan Busecker Schloss. She is from a working line, but with the proper socialization, both with other dogs, including small dogs, and other people to a limited extent, she has turned into a wonderful dog. At three years old she is very perceptive at who's a threat and who's not.She grew-up with my nine year old, and seems to love children, she's been playing with them all her life.She certainty is a high drive shepard, but with daily work,and being included in all our family activities, she's a really great dog.I think the key is spending the hours needed to expose the dog as a puppy, to alot of the situations, she's going to be expected inter-act. Then spend hours each day enter-acting with her, I have know doubt that if a stranger attempted to enter our fense, or grab my daughter, they would have to go through 85 lbs. of lean pissed off German Shepard who most diffently bite.