Originally posted by Tim Leigh:

If you dog accepts your authority then why do you have to 'I lock my dogs' neck with my legs'. Surely if what you say is true your dog will just sit nicely and let you apply the said drops or ointment - like mine does now that i have approached a less conforntational approach? I am sure I could put a few drops in my dogs ears but if I want to flood the ear canal and massage it in they don't like it.

I have one dog that absolutely HATES having his nails cut but he will submit but is a bit growly but a sharp stare on my part keeps him in control, so I do have that control. I agree with Lauren, having worked at a vet. Dogs know when someone is in control.

Show me the dog that will voluntarily sit still when you drench the ear canal.

You still have me befuzzled as to HOW this relates to drive and hardness.

Tim, I am sitting here shaking my head. It is no wonder your dog has recurrent problems. You will NEVER be able to reach all the way down into the canal. Pouring it in is the only way. A few drops squeezed out of a cotton ball aren't going to cut it either. You are just killing the yeast at the top, and the yeast at the bottom will just migrate up again, becoming resistant to the medication you are using Im sorry my post read wrong - he did have terrible trouble with his ears, because restraining didnt work it went on for longer than necessary. My dog doesnt have dominance issues - simply didnt like being pinned down - theres nothing wrong with that. So i tried a different approach one that didnt involve direct confrontation putting less stress on my dog.
My point is that maybe its better to try a method that doesnt involve overpowering the dog and causing undue stress.

And actually this method cleared his ears up just fine so you can stop shaking your head now - youd be amazed how much oitment you can get into the ear canal by repeat application with a cotton wool bud.


Nancy

I think we'll have to agree to disagree - you cant convince me that having to grab your dog around the neck shows that your in control, and i cant convince you that there are better approaches than having one to two people restrain the dog so he has no choice

Tim, it is also possible that you can't ooze enough confidence and control. It really is all about your attitude. In that case your method might be the only option. A dog still has a lot of freedom while in a headlock, just not in the areas you need to treat, so if your dog doesn't like being pinned you might have been doing it wrong. The dogs with weak nerves did react a little more strongly at first, but once they settled they were the easiest to treat because they liked being able to relax for once.

My question was still not answered.

How the heck does this relate to drive and if so, WHAT drive? Social, Prey, Defense ........etc.

How does this relate to hardness?

I hold the head steady because when the liquid hits the hear the head relexively starts shaking.

If your technique works for you, wonderful. But I dont find that holding my dogs like this is stressful for either me or them (It is more like quiet resignation on their part). My dogs both have very strong prey drive, moderate social/pack drive, and I don't really know about their defense drives as I have not worked with that drive - I do know the weak nerved dog has a low threshold, but nothing has fazed the strong nerved dog to throw her in defense.

I couldn't agree more that this is an issue of "who's in charge," and that the ear drops (admittedly something a lot of dogs hate) issue is a symptom of who's really in charge. It might be a challenge right now with the ear drops needing to be done, but I'd still look at this as a matter of the dog learning that he has a pack leader who knows what's best for him and to whom he has to submit....period. The headlock and the "up against the wall" ------- those indicate so strongly to me that there is no strong human pack leader atmosphere here. I don't mean this as criticism and I hope it doesn't sound like it. I mean that it's best for all concerned if the animal knows that the human is the pack leader immediately and that the role is not up for grabs in difficult situations. So I'd plan to address that in training and/or walking sessions ASAP. For the short run, I'd do some quick assertiveness demos with the dog and then go back to the drops with the calm assertive voice and confident no-B.S. touch you need to claim your alpha position, and I'd reward like crazy (without excitement) after the job is done each time. My own preference is to give excellent (special) rewards for behavior the dog particularly hates ---- like ear drops, in this case. But I'd like to hear opposing viewpoints, because I've medicated maybe a couple of dozen dogs or fewer, and I'm interested in the experiences of people who have dealt with many dogs.

My dog has lots of ear problems. Her hatred of ear ointments was made worse by the fact that we used a vinegar ear wash when she had an active infection--which must have hurt A LOT. However, she is not allowed to go crazy when the new ear medications come out. I put her in a "sit" and expect her to stay. Occasionally she makes a few grumbles, but she knows that she MUST stay sitting. I put in the drops, and it's over in ten seconds. Also give her a big piece of hot dog and lots of praise when it's over. Seems to work very well. The fact that she has to obey seems to calm her down a lot--she tends to work herself up into a frenzy when restrained.

My Lab with food allergies gets yeast infections occasionally, and absolutely HATES his ear wash too. I soak 4 cotton balls in the ear wash (put the balls in a bowl and pour ear wash over them until they are saturated completely), then just put the cotton balls in the dog's ears and rub the ear canals like normal. My dog finds the cotton balls far less objectionable than a bottle in his ear.

This makes 100% sense to me, Erin. The dog knows not only that you're in charge ------ period ------- but also that her behavior during this admittedly irritating process is going to result in a great treat. But the biggy is that the human directs the dog's behavior, and not vice versa. There's no way my dog would make me chase him, tackle him, or restrain him for any procedure. I might be big on praise and rewards, but I take an awfully dim view of the antics I've seen and heard about wherein the dog is in charge, forcing the humans to catch, wrestle, and subdue him. Your viewpoint about the calm situation you generate with your method sounds exactly right to me.

I work for a vet and found that taking a dog off the floor helps alot I have used my coffee table in the past. As far as squirting the drops in the ear, well you don't need alot of it, it does have to last to finish the protocol, but if you place a few drops inside the little pocket just inside the ear and then massage it in, they don't seem to freak out. If you are using Tresaderm, you should be keeping it in the frig, try and let it get a little warm before putting it in the ears..... I have always gone all over my dogs from the time I got them, including the ears. I have seen may patients come in and not like the drops, but if restrained properly it is done and over with rather quickly. I have never had to put a dog in a headlock, sounds pretty scary to me.

Also, Kay, it dawned on me later (AFTER I opened my big mouth, as so often happens) that some people were talking about vet practices and some were talking about their own dogs. Of course I expect my own dogs to sit and submit to whatever I must do to them (and then get rewarded like crazy, especially when it's something they really hate, like ear wash or drops), but how could I expect that from dogs who were not my own but needed treatment?

Whole different situation.........

P.S. About having the dog off the floor: That works for me too. He must come when I say to, even when the ear wash is visible in my hand, not with me going to him. Then I do like to get him up onto the coffee table.