Kate,

I reread your first post. I am wondering if you missed a step in training. I don't think this is an issue with a corrective collar (yet).

Your dog knows the heel position when you stand still, but when you praise him or start to walk her moves out of the position. Correct?

 Quote:

I do believe that Jake understands the command Heel, except he seems to see it only as a temporary position, not something he has to maintain. As soon as he is in heel and/or not pulling and we say good boy, he pulls forward, walking out in front again.

Your dog understand "Good boy" as a release. No problem with that. There are just a few steps in between coming to heel and going for a walk. Here's a solution:

So have your dog move to heel. Treat. Take one step forward, give command "heel". Treat. Go one step at a time, so he learns that the heel position involves movement.

Then have your dog come to heel. Treat. Take two steps "Heel." Treat. etc...

Once you get to or 7 steps or so, you can move on to regular walking and the other suggestions on this thread.

Does this make sense to you?

The beauty of this is the dog learns to correct its position on command and fewer corrections are needed. You might get lucky and end up with competition style heeling too. My dog did without me trying to do it.

Edited by Anne Vaini (03/15/2007 12:55 AM)
Edit reason: clarification

I don't mean to hijack this thread as well, but one question. Are you supposed to teach the competition heel AFTER your dog walks on a loose lead or before? Or does it matter? I am having a heck of a time figuring that out. I probably confuse the hell out of my dog because I am still working on loose lead and then try to train heel also.

I've trained competition style heeling before, after and concurrently with training a loose leash walk. I'm not convinced there's much of a difference.

With very young puppies, my plan is to keep them from learning bad walking habits so that focusing on loose leash walking is not necessary.

With adults, at some point you just have to get from point A to point B, so some loose leash walk training is necessary before heeling.

The only thing I feel is important is using different commands. One of my dogs is "stay with me" for loose leash and "heel" for heeling and "walk free" for roaming. The other one is "knock it off" for loose leash and "fuss" for heeling.

Thank you, that is something to consider and we will certainly give your suggestions a try.

I don't know if this means anything or not, but we have noticed that when we have him on a long line (we don't let him off leash when walking him) he walks much better, and closer to us as opposed to when he is on his regular 6' walking leash.

 Quote: Kate Ormond

I don't know if this means anything or not, but we have noticed that when we have him on a long line (we don't let him off leash when walking him) he walks much better, and closer to us as opposed to when he is on his regular 6' walking leash.

This post jumped out at me because it reminded me of someone I know who had a heel problem.

Is there any chance that you're handling the 6' lead with constant tension on it, and the longer line without?

That is, does the dog expect and maintain tension on his lead with the short one?

Just a shot in the dark; you've received good suggestions.

That is a good point, never looked at it that way before.

(To correct my post, I realize he is actually on a 4' lead).

It is definately true that the short lead is not often truly loose, and the long line always is. Even when we have him off leash in a safe enclosed area, he obeys heel much much better.

If that is the case what do I need to do differently to rectify his "expection" to maintain tension on his short lead.

Well kate Our GSD male was a sled dog until I got a prong collar from ED, fitted it properly and never, ever, ever, even had to correct him again. It was magic for my wife. We worked on it a little, and now the boy is so tight on my leg I gotta move over sometimes. And I heard the same "oh hes dominate" stuff you heard from trainers, that collar just being on him the way it was fixed him right up, because as he leaned in to pull it would tighten up on him and do its thing. I cant say enough about them. But make sure you fit him right, I see 5-10 idiots everytime we go to petsmart using them as everyday loose collars, and it makes me so upset to see their dogs treated that way. Ive even seen people tighten them up then stomp down on the leash to get a puppy" A PUPPY" to sit, needless to say I told the little bastard what he needed to know before being escorted out by the manager. good luck

Oh BTW when we were in the lonestar ScH club in austin, when teaching the heal Rob would have me hold the leash behind my back with my right hand real short so he couldnt go ahead of me and hold the ball tightly in my left upright to get the focus and make random squares while healing, we used a buckle collar, and leash. It turned out to be effective at getting the focus and keeping him in place because he couldnt see what was keeping him in postion. he tended to watch me more and care less about what we were walking into.

I guess I am confused,, since this is an E Collar forum and nobody has mentioned using the E Collar to teach heeling. I have seen 2 different E Collar instructors teach 2 different dogs that would not heel, in less than an hour, to heel with no pulling. The instructor I went to last week, suggested that as one of the future lessons, if I wanted to use the collar for something besides an great recall.....

Bob

can you describe how he did it? Especially how to keep him from crabbing out?

Thanks,
Anne