To start with I own neither a no-bark collar nor an e-collar. But I do have Basic Obedience and Dominant and Aggressive dogs where Ed talks about them and was just thinking.
With a no-bark collar we want the dog to know when it is wearing the collar, so that it knows when is an appropriate time to bark (no collar) and when it should stay quiet (when the collar is on). So the dog learns to mind the collar.
But with an e-collar, we try and get the dog to ignore the collar so it learns to mind the handler, whether it is wearing the collar or not.
This is two very opposite approaches to what must, to the dog, feel like two identical devices. I know Ed uses both no-bark and e-collars. How does the dog know the difference of which collar he is wearing?
Hi Angela;
The dog knows the difference between the two collars because the sensations are very different. I teach with the e collar using a very very low level of stimulation in a rythmic cadence. The collar acts as an adjunct to help the word process in the brain.
The bark collar packs a punch in response to barking.
Roni
Melissa Hoyer Webboard User Reg: 05-09-2005
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Loc: SE Michigan
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Hmmm...I have to respectfully disagree with Roni's post.
I own both an e-collar and a bark collar. My GSD doesn't really know the difference between them, or at least, her behavior is no different dependent upon which is on her at the time.
I also do not use a "rhythmic cadence", if my view on what that means is accurate. I give a command - if it is ignored - I say "NO" and give a quick stim. I don't use the avoidance method of giving stimulation until the action is performed.
Regarding the orginal post - I guess I was never under the impression that a dog should be 'aware' of a bark collar...I used the same collar conditioning method as with the e-collar, when prepping my dog for the bark collar.
corinne olson Webboard User Reg: 09-06-2004
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Just thought I would mention that Roni does not do avoidance training with the ecollar. She does not use it as a correction, but uses the tap tap tap in a positive way (she can explain more when she is back on line). She does not use the ecollar as "no" and give a stim, instead the tapping helps the dogs focus and learn . Roni is very experienced with the ecollar and gives wonderfull and very informative seminars . Melisa I am not saying that you are wrong just wanted to try to explain how Roni uses the collar untill she gets a chance to anwser.
corinne
Edited by corinne olson (05/14/2007 07:06 PM)
Edit reason: Sorry I said Lisa instead of Melisa
Thanks Corinne!
Steve, my stim is an extremely low level. I pair the nick button, in rythemic cadence, ex. 123, 123, 123 paired with a primary reinforcer and body language to teach the dog the behavior. My dogs and the dogs I instruct using this method creates a very "tail wagging attitude" and truely learn at an excellerated rate. I don't use the collar for corrections, in the teaching phase. I reserve that for when the dog completely understands the command and is in too high a drive to pursue what they are interested in. I believe the bark collar is a corrective stimulation, the feeling is uncomfortable to cause the dog to stop barking. My dogs definately know the difference and I want them to!
I am a newbie at this, but my instructor taught me to nick once on the orginal command ( as you would with lightly tapping someone on the shoulder when you want to get their attention). If the dog ignores the original command, you give them a couple of quick nicks in a row ( as you would with tapping someone a couple of times, if they didn't pay attention with the first single tap.) If that fails, then increase the intensity and multiple tap again ( tapping their shoulder a few times again, but this time, a harder tap). Seems to make sense to me and my dog.....
Quote: melissa hoyer
Hmmm...I have to respectfully disagree with Roni's post.
I own both an e-collar and a bark collar. My GSD doesn't really know the difference between them, or at least, her behavior is no different dependent upon which is on her at the time.
I also do not use a "rhythmic cadence", if my view on what that means is accurate. I give a command - if it is ignored - I say "NO" and give a quick stim. I don't use the avoidance method of giving stimulation until the action is performed.
Regarding the orginal post - I guess I was never under the impression that a dog should be 'aware' of a bark collar...I used the same collar conditioning method as with the e-collar, when prepping my dog for the bark collar.
Angela, IMO the dog should not know the difference between the two collars mentioned if there has been collar conditioning-put on 3 collars take off 2, put one on take all off, etc. The difference in the stim. isn't that dissimilar.
No-bark collar on, dog barks, (can say "NO")dog gets stim(every time the dog barks). Ecollar on, dog barks, say "NO", dog either stops or continues, if continues you stim. the dog. Only difference is whether you say "NO" when the dog barks with either of the collars on.
Hope this makes sense, hence it's late and time for bed-brain is drained for the day-
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Ecollar vs No-bark collar: how does dog know?
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. Melisa I am not saying that you are wrong just wanted to try to explain how Roni uses the collar untill she gets a chance to anwser.
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