For those of you that use toy drive for obedience I have a couple of questions. I wish I lived near some fine ob folks like the ones that frequent this board

1. Do you ever find that focus on the toy makes the dog react slowly in a stalking kind of way. Like going kind of slow into that half down or sit, crouched and ready for the reward? Even if I am doing drive building Flinks style, he will do the "stalking sit" and focus on the toy. This can be solved by a leash pop or two but seems to last only the session.

2. How often do you work ob off lead and on lead. I think I am guilty of doing to much off lead ob. When heeling off lead I notice I have good attention, but he is lagging ever so slightly. Almost like he is anticipating a reward again, so he stalks kind of .

If I do it with a leash on and give him a correction (in drive) he comes in nice and tight and perfect position/attention. Should I go back to working this only on lead and using corrections if he lags and rewarding perfect position?

Is it right to assume he knows what he SHOULD be doing if a correction brings him to good position and he is still in drive?

Thanks in advance,

One more try!

Anyone?

 Quote: jennifer coulter

1. Do you ever find that focus on the toy makes the dog react slowly in a stalking kind of way. Like going kind of slow into that half down or sit, crouched and ready for the reward? Even if I am doing drive building Flinks style, he will do the "stalking sit" and focus on the toy. This can be solved by a leash pop or two but seems to last only the session.

I have a dog (German Shepherd Malinois cross) who used to do this as well. I used food to teach him all obedience commands and then graduated to the toy. As soon as I switched to the toy, he started stalking it.

 Quote:

2. How often do you work ob off lead and on lead. I think I am guilty of doing to much off lead ob. When heeling off lead I notice I have good attention, but he is lagging ever so slightly. Almost like he is anticipating a reward again, so he stalks kind of .

If I do it with a leash on and give him a correction (in drive) he comes in nice and tight and perfect position/attention. Should I go back to working this only on lead and using corrections if he lags and rewarding perfect position?

I would go back to using the lead and corrections. This seemed to work for me. Repetition, repetition, repetition. Don't ever reward the stalking behavior if you don't want it.

I'm certainly not an obedience expert, so hopefully someone who is will chime in!

Jennifer, I would never assume that a dog knows anything and correct for it. I only correct if I know the dog understands what is required.

Because your corrections have a shelf life of one training session I am inclined to think that either the dog is unsure of the exercise or your corrections are not strong enough.

Depending on how long you have been doing drive work I might consider going right back to basics and only rewarding for a perfect position. Perhaps your corrections are causing too much stress or maybe not enough, only your dog really knows that. But, what I would try is withholding the reward to see if the dog adjusts on his own, if he does chances are good that he understands the exercise, or at least is well on his way to understanding it.

Or, you could try using a marker (assuming one is already established) just before you release the toy. But again, only mark the proper position.

Or, release the dog from the "hovering/stalking pose" going right back into drive building and try again until he gets it right, being extremely sure to give satisfaction at the exact moment it needs to be delivered (proper posture).

Or, (if you KNOW your dog understands the exercise) give a second correction, a good one, just not hard enough to extinguish drive, but again be ready to give immediate drive satisfaction for the correct posture.

That's a little bit of trouble shooting I have tried with a couple of dogs (only 3 ), and in the order I attempt them. What I tend to do with a problem during my "whiskey and cigar" time is think of a way to get the point across to the dog in the most positive way possible, deviating from the "straight-line approach" as little as possible, using the fewest steps possible while trying to keep the dog successful.

Hope that helps a bit.

Thanks guys,

Lots of 'whiskey and cigar' thinking going through my head on this one. Lots of great info in your posts for me to ponder and try to incorporate.

If I am honest, I have rewarded the stalking , "slow, butt not quite touching the ground sits" with a ball drop before. I have also rewarded, and worse, baited him into proper position with the ball and then rewarded when off leash heeling.

I probably have been using a leash only one in ten times we "play" obedience.

I put him on lead tonight and did some short heeling exersises and did not need to correct. He did lag just a tad on an unexpected right about turn, but self corrected his position.

On lead our heeling has been more consistant and I know that he does know what is expected.

Off lead however, I have been more inconsistant with rewards (rewading less than perfect position) and there are no corrections. He IS giving me good attention off lead and he IS in drive, guess I have just taught him inadvertantly that he has a bit more leeway on his exact position.

I have also been thinking that I usually hold the prey item under my arm. This causes him to be back a little further than i would like. I think it might help if I move to a clip around my neck for the toy.

I am thinking I will do a good on lead heeling session, then after some great positioning, take him off lead and do a VERY short (few steps) heel exersisce and reward only for the same presision as the on lead exersise.

At some point I probably should let this go. He heels pretty well, with good attention and we don't compete. Of course when we get back to winter and I start stepping on his toes again with ski boots on, he will heel a little wider

But when you see those Sch champions on those videos, you just want to be that perfect

Maybe with my next dog (distant future) I will make less mistakes At least I learn something from every one of those mistakes