Dennis Jones wrote 07/18/2007 08:20 PM Maggie has bladder stones, need options #148947 - 07/18/2007 08:20 PM
Dennis Jones Webboard User Reg: 06-13-2004 Posts: 3389 Loc: Richmond Va Offline	Maggie my nine year old Malamute GSD has been diagnosed with bladder stones, the Dr. said surgery or special diet. The diet is expensive and a maybe. I'm concerned about surgery on an older dog and I was wondering if there was a non evasive way of dealing with stones. I though I remembered a "sonic" way of busting stones, the procedure was for people I don't know if they got a procedures for dogs, any advice would be most appreciated
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Amber Morgan wrote 07/19/2007 09:30 AM Re: Maggie has bladder stones, need options [Re: Dennis Jones ] #148996 - 07/19/2007 09:30 AM
Amber Morgan Webboard User Reg: 10-18-2006 Posts: 1849 Loc: St. Louis, MO Offline	I wish I had some experience I could share with you about this, and I've been waiting to see if someone else has any. I'm assuming you already discussed options with your vet and expressed your concerns. What did he/she say? Is it possible that you could talk to another vet? In our area we have a vet specialist hospitial, where they refer dogs for treatments that are beyond the scope of a regular vet clinic. A machine like the one you mentioned for sonic blasting would, I imagine, be too expensive for a regular vet's office. I'm wondering if perhaps your city, or a nearby city, has a similar facility? I have a friend who works in the one near us. Perhaps there's some sort of networking...I'll ask him tonight if a machine like that exists for dogs, and if so, if they're aware of anywhere else that has it in your area. My thinking is that it would probably be VERY pricey. Most of the treatments at this place would stagger you with their cost. Carbon
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Jenni Williams wrote 07/19/2007 11:43 AM Re: Maggie has bladder stones, need options [Re: Amber Morgan ] #149017 - 07/19/2007 11:43 AM
Jenni Williams Webboard User Reg: 10-06-2005 Posts: 2686 Loc: llinois Offline	Dennis, what is she eating? I haven't had any stones with my own animals, but I have a client whose cat has had recurrent bouts with stones. It's often unclear what causes them, but it's usually something to do with lack of proper breakdown in the digestive system. I would NEVER put a dog on a Hill's diet (guessing that's what the vet suggested). I'd go for the surgery, and then evaluate diet. You need to find out what kind of stones they are; different ones have different contributors, and thus, different "fixes." I had one once that never got stones, but often had crystals b/c his system was too alkaline. Red meat and vitamin c, along with methionine boost acidity. Since I've been feeding THK and supplementing, we've had zero issues. My point is that there are several different avenues. Find out exactly what they are, then search online for alternative treatments. You may be pleasantly surprised.
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Connie Sutherland wrote 07/19/2007 12:44 PM Re: Maggie has bladder stones, need options [Re: Dennis Jones ] #149027 - 07/19/2007 12:44 PM
Connie Sutherland Moderator Reg: 07-13-2005 Posts: 31580 Loc: North-Central coast of California Offline	Quote: dennis jones Maggie my nine year old Malamute GSD has been diagnosed with bladder stones, the Dr. said surgery or special diet. The diet is expensive and a maybe. I'm concerned about surgery on an older dog and I was wondering if there was a non evasive way of dealing with stones. I though I remembered a "sonic" way of busting stones, the procedure was for people I don't know if they got a procedures for dogs, any advice would be most appreciated Are they urate or struvite? Does the dog have a UTI right now, or does the vet think undiagnosed (or diagnosed) past UTIs? Cystitis, from everything I have read, is the trigger for most struvite formations (although there is a genetic predisposition, and there is a saying: "Once a stone former, always a stone former"). The UTI raises the urine pH and also has by-products that cause the magnesium ammonium phosphate crystals to form. I have read about laser surgery (much less dangerous than open surgery, I have read).
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Kimberly Bunk wrote 07/19/2007 01:04 PM Re: Maggie has bladder stones, need options [Re: Dennis Jones ] #149032 - 07/19/2007 01:04 PM
Kimberly Bunk Webboard User Reg: 05-04-2006 Posts: 384 Loc: PA Offline	Dennis, I found this thread on the internet and it mentions 2 places close to you with the equipment to use sonic waves for bladder stone destruction. Kimberly You are correct that calcium oxalate stones are not easily dissolved through dietary means, as struvite stones sometimes are. So usually it is necessary to remove these stones. It is supposed to be possible to remove many stones through voiding urohydropropulsion but surgical removal is probably still the most common method of removing these stones. The University of Tennessee has a lithotripter that they use on dogs and they are reporting good success with this procedure. Purdue University is the only other place that I know of that is doing this procedure, but there may be others, as this sort of thing changes frequently. In addition, there are some people around the country who are experimenting with laser fragmentation of bladder stones but I don't know where they are, as this was just mentioned as a possibility in a seminar we attended on lower urinary tract disease this spring. I know that the Virginia-Maryland Regional College of Veterinary Medicine (Blacksburg, VA) has done the laser procedure on horses but I haven't seen anything about small animals that I can remember. At the seminar we attended, Dr. Osborne from the University of Minnesota showed some pretty amazing slides of stones they had managed to retrieve through voiding urohydropropulsion, but if this has been tried by someone who is good at it and it didn't work, then this may not be an option. Also, in some cases it is just obvious that a particular stone is too large to be removed in this manner, so if that is the case then it isn't an option, either. There is an article in the September 1, 1993 issue of the AVMA Journal with good diagrams of this procedure and I think it is covered in one of the Clinics of North America issues, too. Your vet should be able to arrange a referral to the University of Tennessee if that isn't too far to go. Mike Richards, DVM 8/23/2001
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Kimberly Bunk wrote 07/19/2007 01:26 PM Re: Maggie has bladder stones, need options [Re: Kimberly Bunk ] #149037 - 07/19/2007 01:26 PM
Kimberly Bunk Webboard User Reg: 05-04-2006 Posts: 384 Loc: PA Offline	Dennis, One other hospital may be University of Pennsylvania, I'm not sure which is easiest for you to get to. Interventional Radiology and Endoscopy Contact Us Chick Weisse, VMD, DACVS Assistant Professor in Surgery Director, Interventional Radiology Contact information: weissec@vet.upenn.edu 215-898-4680 3900 Delancey Street Philadelphia, PA 19104 Allyson Berent, DVM Lecturer Small Animal Internal Medicine Interventional Radiology and Endoscopy Contact information: aberent@vet.upenn.edu 215-898-4680 3900 Delancey Street Philadelphia, PA 19104 Kimberly Edited by Kimberly Bunk (07/19/2007 01:33 PM) Edit reason: added info
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Amber Morgan wrote 07/19/2007 04:32 PM Re: Maggie has bladder stones, need options [Re: Kimberly Bunk ] #149065 - 07/19/2007 04:32 PM
Amber Morgan Webboard User Reg: 10-18-2006 Posts: 1849 Loc: St. Louis, MO Offline	Kimberly, would you mind posting a link to that article? Carbon
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Kimberly Bunk wrote 07/19/2007 07:50 PM Re: Maggie has bladder stones, need options [Re: Amber Morgan ] #149094 - 07/19/2007 07:50 PM
Kimberly Bunk Webboard User Reg: 05-04-2006 Posts: 384 Loc: PA Offline	It's not really an article, but more like a Q&A site. http://www.doggy.com.hk/Health.htm The Q&A is originally from here: http://www.vetinfo4dogs.com/dogurinary.html Edited by Kimberly Bunk (07/19/2007 07:53 PM) Edit reason: Added sited website url
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Amber Morgan wrote 07/19/2007 09:15 PM Re: Maggie has bladder stones, need options [Re: Kimberly Bunk ] #149101 - 07/19/2007 09:15 PM
Amber Morgan Webboard User Reg: 10-18-2006 Posts: 1849 Loc: St. Louis, MO Offline	Thanks! Carbon
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